Rogue - Revision history

Sdhjk: /* Rogues in 3rd Edition */

2025-08-08T11:23:48Z

Rogues in 3rd Edition

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:23, 8 August 2025
Line 43:		Line 43:
	3rd Edition Rogue suffers from four big problems. Firstly, some idiot decided weapon finesse had to require a prerequisite of +1 BAB while rogues start at +0 so they can't take it at character creation. Either they have to start as something else, dip something that gets it as a bonus feat at level 2 (which for 3.0 meant [[Fighter]]), or suck it up for two levels. Secondly, they are dependent upon Sneak Attack to deal any damage, and Constructs, Oozes, Plants, Undead, and incorporeal enemies are immune to it, with undead alone being one of the most common types of enemy (also, Rogue has no good Bludgeoning weapons for Undead). Thirdly, sneak Attack is really hard to set up, and can be prevented by something as simple as poor lighting: rogues need to be able to see their target well enough to take a good guess at where the important squishy organs are (this is why [[Dwarf]]s and other races with low-light vision and darkvision actually make good Rogues). Four: Magic does most of the things they do better. For that matter, an NPC [[retainer]] with the "[[Expert]]" class could do most of these things, and all you have to do is promise to pay him, until he misses that last saving-throw.		3rd Edition Rogue suffers from four big problems. Firstly, some idiot decided weapon finesse had to require a prerequisite of +1 BAB while rogues start at +0 so they can't take it at character creation. Either they have to start as something else, dip something that gets it as a bonus feat at level 2 (which for 3.0 meant [[Fighter]]), or suck it up for two levels. Secondly, they are dependent upon Sneak Attack to deal any damage, and Constructs, Oozes, Plants, Undead, and incorporeal enemies are immune to it, with undead alone being one of the most common types of enemy (also, Rogue has no good Bludgeoning weapons for Undead). Thirdly, sneak Attack is really hard to set up, and can be prevented by something as simple as poor lighting: rogues need to be able to see their target well enough to take a good guess at where the important squishy organs are (this is why [[Dwarf]]s and other races with low-light vision and darkvision actually make good Rogues). Four: Magic does most of the things they do better. For that matter, an NPC [[retainer]] with the "[[Expert]]" class could do most of these things, and all you have to do is promise to pay him, until he misses that last saving-throw.

	However, in 3e, Bardsongs (musical spellcasting) were tied to total character level, not [[Bard]] levels~~; more Bard levels only gave more spells~~. The common best "Bard" build was Bard 1/Rogue 19, due to same spellcasting with better class features. It also made Rogue part better, though not fully fixing the problem. This "Bard/Rogue" bug was fixed in 3.5e.		However, in 3e, Bardsongs (musical spellcasting) and most other things were tied to total character level, not Bard levels. The common best "Bard" build was Bard 1/Rogue 19, due to same spellcasting with better class features. It also made Rogue part better, though not fully fixing the problem. This "Bard/Rogue" bug was fixed in 3.5e.

	In the move to 3.5, they gained Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge, freeing them of their dead level at 4th and 8th. Still a bad class, but it's at least a useful ability. Late in the system Wizards realized <s>everything</s> Constructs, Oozes, Plants, Undead, and incorporeal enemies being immune to sneak attack wasn't a good idea and released a few patches, but you had to go out of your way and expend resources to obtain them.		In the move to 3.5, they gained Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge, freeing them of their dead level at 4th and 8th. Still a bad class, but it's at least a useful ability. Late in the system Wizards realized <s>everything</s> Constructs, Oozes, Plants, Undead, and incorporeal enemies being immune to sneak attack wasn't a good idea and released a few patches, but you had to go out of your way and expend resources to obtain them.

Sdhjk: /* Rogues in 3rd Edition */

2025-08-08T11:14:58Z

Rogues in 3rd Edition

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:14, 8 August 2025
Line 43:		Line 43:
	3rd Edition Rogue suffers from four big problems. Firstly, some idiot decided weapon finesse had to require a prerequisite of +1 BAB while rogues start at +0 so they can't take it at character creation. Either they have to start as something else, dip something that gets it as a bonus feat at level 2 (which for 3.0 meant [[Fighter]]), or suck it up for two levels. Secondly, they are dependent upon Sneak Attack to deal any damage, and Constructs, Oozes, Plants, Undead, and incorporeal enemies are immune to it, with undead alone being one of the most common types of enemy (also, Rogue has no good Bludgeoning weapons for Undead). Thirdly, sneak Attack is really hard to set up, and can be prevented by something as simple as poor lighting: rogues need to be able to see their target well enough to take a good guess at where the important squishy organs are (this is why [[Dwarf]]s and other races with low-light vision and darkvision actually make good Rogues). Four: Magic does most of the things they do better. For that matter, an NPC [[retainer]] with the "[[Expert]]" class could do most of these things, and all you have to do is promise to pay him, until he misses that last saving-throw.		3rd Edition Rogue suffers from four big problems. Firstly, some idiot decided weapon finesse had to require a prerequisite of +1 BAB while rogues start at +0 so they can't take it at character creation. Either they have to start as something else, dip something that gets it as a bonus feat at level 2 (which for 3.0 meant [[Fighter]]), or suck it up for two levels. Secondly, they are dependent upon Sneak Attack to deal any damage, and Constructs, Oozes, Plants, Undead, and incorporeal enemies are immune to it, with undead alone being one of the most common types of enemy (also, Rogue has no good Bludgeoning weapons for Undead). Thirdly, sneak Attack is really hard to set up, and can be prevented by something as simple as poor lighting: rogues need to be able to see their target well enough to take a good guess at where the important squishy organs are (this is why [[Dwarf]]s and other races with low-light vision and darkvision actually make good Rogues). Four: Magic does most of the things they do better. For that matter, an NPC [[retainer]] with the "[[Expert]]" class could do most of these things, and all you have to do is promise to pay him, until he misses that last saving-throw.

	In the move to 3.5 they gained Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge, freeing them of their dead level at 4th and 8th. Still a bad class, but it's at least a useful ability. Late in the system Wizards realized <s>everything</s> Constructs, Oozes, Plants, Undead, and incorporeal enemies being immune to sneak attack wasn't a good idea and released a few patches, but you had to go out of your way and expend resources to obtain them.		However, in 3e, Bardsongs (musical spellcasting) were tied to total character level, not [[Bard]] levels; more Bard levels only gave more spells. The common best "Bard" build was Bard 1/Rogue 19, due to same spellcasting with better class features. It also made Rogue part better, though not fully fixing the problem. This "Bard/Rogue" bug was fixed in 3.5e.

			In the move to 3.5, they gained Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge, freeing them of their dead level at 4th and 8th. Still a bad class, but it's at least a useful ability. Late in the system Wizards realized <s>everything</s> Constructs, Oozes, Plants, Undead, and incorporeal enemies being immune to sneak attack wasn't a good idea and released a few patches, but you had to go out of your way and expend resources to obtain them.

	Meanwhile 3.5 also offered the bushwhackin', hornswogglin' [[Swashbuckler]] cracker croaker. Rev'ren! ... which also ended up a dip.		Meanwhile 3.5 also offered the bushwhackin', hornswogglin' [[Swashbuckler]] cracker croaker. Rev'ren! ... which also ended up a dip.
Line 49:		Line 51:
	The Rogue doesn't appear in their own right in [[Arcana Unearthed]]. The Unfettered (the Not-Swashbuckler) fills that niche. But you ''can'' add Assassin as a prestige-class.		The Rogue doesn't appear in their own right in [[Arcana Unearthed]]. The Unfettered (the Not-Swashbuckler) fills that niche. But you ''can'' add Assassin as a prestige-class.

	Rogues are [[Tier System\|Tier 4]], and likely a low tier 4 at that. They're capable of doing a lot of things, but not all that well.		Rogues are [[Tier System\|Tier 4]], and likely a low tier 4 at that. They're capable of doing a lot of things, but not all that well. 3e "Bard 1 / Rogue 19" is [[Tier System\|Tier 3]], as it's effectively proper [[Bard]] who doubles as Rogue.

	==Rogues in Pathfinder==		==Rogues in Pathfinder==

Sdhjk: /* Rogues in 3rd Edition */

2025-08-08T10:35:21Z

Rogues in 3rd Edition

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:35, 8 August 2025
Line 41:		Line 41:

	==Rogues in 3rd Edition==		==Rogues in 3rd Edition==
	3rd Edition Rogue suffers from four big problems. Firstly, some idiot decided weapon finesse had to require a prerequisite of +1 BAB while rogues start at +0 so they can't take it at character creation. Either they have to start as something else, dip something that gets it as a bonus feat at level 2 (which for 3.0 meant [[Fighter]]), or suck it up for two levels. Secondly, they are dependent upon Sneak Attack to deal any damage, and Constructs, Oozes, Plants, Undead, and incorporeal enemies are immune to it, with undead alone being one of the most common types of enemy. Thirdly, sneak Attack is really hard to set up, and can be prevented by something as simple as poor lighting: rogues need to be able to see their target well enough to take a good guess at where the important squishy organs are (this is why [[Dwarf]]s and other races with low-light vision and darkvision actually make good Rogues). Four: Magic does most of the things they do better. For that matter, an NPC [[retainer]] with the "[[Expert]]" class could do most of these things, and all you have to do is promise to pay him, until he misses that last saving-throw.		3rd Edition Rogue suffers from four big problems. Firstly, some idiot decided weapon finesse had to require a prerequisite of +1 BAB while rogues start at +0 so they can't take it at character creation. Either they have to start as something else, dip something that gets it as a bonus feat at level 2 (which for 3.0 meant [[Fighter]]), or suck it up for two levels. Secondly, they are dependent upon Sneak Attack to deal any damage, and Constructs, Oozes, Plants, Undead, and incorporeal enemies are immune to it, with undead alone being one of the most common types of enemy (also, Rogue has no good Bludgeoning weapons for Undead). Thirdly, sneak Attack is really hard to set up, and can be prevented by something as simple as poor lighting: rogues need to be able to see their target well enough to take a good guess at where the important squishy organs are (this is why [[Dwarf]]s and other races with low-light vision and darkvision actually make good Rogues). Four: Magic does most of the things they do better. For that matter, an NPC [[retainer]] with the "[[Expert]]" class could do most of these things, and all you have to do is promise to pay him, until he misses that last saving-throw.

	In the move to 3.5 they gained Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge, freeing them of their dead level at 4th and 8th. Still a bad class, but it's at least a useful ability. Late in the system Wizards realized <s>everything</s> Constructs, Oozes, Plants, Undead, and incorporeal enemies being immune to sneak attack wasn't a good idea and released a few patches, but you had to go out of your way and expend resources to obtain them.		In the move to 3.5 they gained Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge, freeing them of their dead level at 4th and 8th. Still a bad class, but it's at least a useful ability. Late in the system Wizards realized <s>everything</s> Constructs, Oozes, Plants, Undead, and incorporeal enemies being immune to sneak attack wasn't a good idea and released a few patches, but you had to go out of your way and expend resources to obtain them.

imported>Administrator: 145 revisions imported

2023-06-22T15:42:03Z

145 revisions imported

← Older revision	Revision as of 15:42, 22 June 2023
(No difference)

imported>Administrator: 1 revision imported

2023-06-19T03:22:24Z

1 revision imported

← Older revision	Revision as of 03:22, 19 June 2023
(No difference)

73.25.153.252 at 07:13, 20 May 2023

2023-05-20T07:13:06Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:13, 20 May 2023
Line 1:		Line 1:
			{{Topquote\|Elusive, evasive, persistent - righteous traits for a rogue. \|[[Darkest Dungeon\|The Ancestor]]}}
	'''Rogue''' is a character class found in [[Dungeons & Dragons]] and [[Pathfinder]], although the general archetype (usually by different names) can be found in almost every [[RPG]] ever made. Rogues are sneaky, backstabbing, nimble adventurers, and they're just so useful you can't help but keep them around.		'''Rogue''' is a character class found in [[Dungeons & Dragons]] and [[Pathfinder]], although the general archetype (usually by different names) can be found in almost every [[RPG]] ever made. Rogues are sneaky, backstabbing, nimble adventurers, and they're just so useful you can't help but keep them around.

1d4chan>Slipmcripfist: direct link

2023-05-12T03:11:16Z

direct link

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:11, 12 May 2023
Line 8:		Line 8:
	Their skillmonkeying is more useful in [[Pathfinder]], where they now have a lot of exclusive skill uses that other classes used to be able to do well enough with the right buffs, and they get ''rogue talents'' that give them a little more unique flavor. Yet ultimately they are outdone by the Investigator in the skillmonkey/utility part. The Investigator hybrid class has an even bigger skill list, is more reliant on Int, can buff himself with alchemy and may add 1d6(later 1d8) to his skill/attack/save rolls at will. The rogues now also have the advantage of far fewer enemies having sneak-attack immunity. Nowadays it's mostly just elementals and oozes. Have a Japan-flavored alternate class in the [[ninja]], which changes out some of those skill monkey powers for [[monk\|ki pool]] and general ''insane badassery''. Each can crosstrain in the other's special abilities.		Their skillmonkeying is more useful in [[Pathfinder]], where they now have a lot of exclusive skill uses that other classes used to be able to do well enough with the right buffs, and they get ''rogue talents'' that give them a little more unique flavor. Yet ultimately they are outdone by the Investigator in the skillmonkey/utility part. The Investigator hybrid class has an even bigger skill list, is more reliant on Int, can buff himself with alchemy and may add 1d6(later 1d8) to his skill/attack/save rolls at will. The rogues now also have the advantage of far fewer enemies having sneak-attack immunity. Nowadays it's mostly just elementals and oozes. Have a Japan-flavored alternate class in the [[ninja]], which changes out some of those skill monkey powers for [[monk\|ki pool]] and general ''insane badassery''. Each can crosstrain in the other's special abilities.

	[[Arcane Trickster]] is [[Prestige ~~class~~]] aimed as Rogues who uses casting to enhance sneakiness like a [[Gish]] uses magic to enhance smashing things. This contrasts a [[Bard]] who has casting and skill uses, but is not at all sneaky. Several attempts have been made to make this a base class. In 3.5 these include [[Spellthief]], Psychic Rogue (detailed below), and potentially [[Beguiler]], which differs in being a sneaky full caster instead of a rogue variant. There are several options for this in Pathfinder including the "Eldritch Scoundrel" archetype, which is roughly on par with a standard Arcane Trickster (unless you enter Arcane Trickster early with the Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat, then it comes out far ahead), Vivisectionist [[Alchemist (Pathfinder)\|Alchemist]] and [[Investigator]], plus [[Inquisitor (Pathfinder)\|Inquisitor]] for a divine variation. Arcane Trickser appears as a Paragon Path in 4E... which means you'll have no magic till 1/3rd of even the longest career is over. 5E makes "Arcane Trickster" one of the three core options Rogues can select as a specialty.		[[Arcane Trickster]] is [[Prestige Class]] aimed as Rogues who uses casting to enhance sneakiness like a [[Gish]] uses magic to enhance smashing things. This contrasts a [[Bard]] who has casting and skill uses, but is not at all sneaky. Several attempts have been made to make this a base class. In 3.5 these include [[Spellthief]], Psychic Rogue (detailed below), and potentially [[Beguiler]], which differs in being a sneaky full caster instead of a rogue variant. There are several options for this in Pathfinder including the "Eldritch Scoundrel" archetype, which is roughly on par with a standard Arcane Trickster (unless you enter Arcane Trickster early with the Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat, then it comes out far ahead), Vivisectionist [[Alchemist (Pathfinder)\|Alchemist]] and [[Investigator]], plus [[Inquisitor (Pathfinder)\|Inquisitor]] for a divine variation. Arcane Trickser appears as a Paragon Path in 4E... which means you'll have no magic till 1/3rd of even the longest career is over. 5E makes "Arcane Trickster" one of the three core options Rogues can select as a specialty.

	People have a bad tendency to misspell the name as [[Rouge]], which, to be fair, does involve all the same letters, but they just can't find the [[FATAL\|G-spot]].		People have a bad tendency to misspell the name as [[Rouge]], which, to be fair, does involve all the same letters, but they just can't find the [[FATAL\|G-spot]].

1d4chan>Skadooshbag: /* The Rogue/Thief Divide */

2022-07-19T22:01:30Z

The Rogue/Thief Divide

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:01, 19 July 2022
Line 17:		Line 17:
	Thus, when Wizards of the Coast took over and made D&D 3rd edition, the dropped the idea of class categories and just renamed the Thief into the Rogue, in part to give it a wider definition... But, you just can't keep something old-school down; the Thief returned as an Essentials style "simplified" version of the Rogue in 4th edition, and as a [[Skill Monkey]] subclass for the rogue in 5th edition.		Thus, when Wizards of the Coast took over and made D&D 3rd edition, the dropped the idea of class categories and just renamed the Thief into the Rogue, in part to give it a wider definition... But, you just can't keep something old-school down; the Thief returned as an Essentials style "simplified" version of the Rogue in 4th edition, and as a [[Skill Monkey]] subclass for the rogue in 5th edition.

	Also, unique amongst RPGs, their backstab ability only worked on creatures that actually have a back, o things like slimes and skeletons were immune.		Also, unique amongst RPGs, their backstab ability only worked on creatures that actually have a back, so things like slimes and skeletons were immune.

	==Psychic Rogue==		==Psychic Rogue==

1d4chan>Skadooshbag: /* The Rogue/Thief Divide */

2022-07-19T22:01:17Z

The Rogue/Thief Divide

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:01, 19 July 2022
Line 16:		Line 16:

	Thus, when Wizards of the Coast took over and made D&D 3rd edition, the dropped the idea of class categories and just renamed the Thief into the Rogue, in part to give it a wider definition... But, you just can't keep something old-school down; the Thief returned as an Essentials style "simplified" version of the Rogue in 4th edition, and as a [[Skill Monkey]] subclass for the rogue in 5th edition.		Thus, when Wizards of the Coast took over and made D&D 3rd edition, the dropped the idea of class categories and just renamed the Thief into the Rogue, in part to give it a wider definition... But, you just can't keep something old-school down; the Thief returned as an Essentials style "simplified" version of the Rogue in 4th edition, and as a [[Skill Monkey]] subclass for the rogue in 5th edition.

			Also, unique amongst RPGs, their backstab ability only worked on creatures that actually have a back, o things like slimes and skeletons were immune.

	==Psychic Rogue==		==Psychic Rogue==

84.92.107.167: /* The Rogue/Thief Divide */

2022-05-22T17:59:46Z

The Rogue/Thief Divide

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:59, 22 May 2022
Line 13:		Line 13:

	==The Rogue/Thief Divide==		==The Rogue/Thief Divide==
	Back in [[Advanced Dungeons & Dragons]], the term "Rogue" was used as an overarching category into which several classes slotted - equivalent to the terms "Warrior" ([[Fighter]], [[Paladin]], [[Ranger]]), "Wizard" ([[Mage]], [[Abjurer]], [[Conjurer]], [[Diviner]], [[Enchanter]], [[Evoker]], [[Illusionist]], [[Necromancer]], [[Transmuter]]), and "Priest" ([[Cleric]], [[Druid]]). In those days, "Rogue" was a blanket to cover the Thief, the class we now call the Rogue, and the [[Bard]], as both of these classes shared the ability to pick locks and detect traps - it also picked up some setting-based variants, such as the Handler (a [[kender]] take on the rogue), and the [[Gypsy]]. Oh right - and [[Unearthed Arcana]]'s [[Acrobat]]. However, the bard was so much less effective at that job that the category of Rogue and the class of Thief were pretty much synonymous with each other in the fandom.		Back in [[Advanced Dungeons & Dragons]], the term "Rogue" was used as an overarching category into which several classes slotted - equivalent to the terms "Warrior" ([[Fighter]], [[Paladin]], [[Ranger]]), "Wizard" ([[Mage]], [[Abjurer]], [[Conjurer]], [[Diviner]], [[Enchanter]], [[Evoker]], [[Illusionist]], [[Necromancer]], [[Transmuter]]), and "Priest" ([[Cleric]], [[Druid]]). In those days, "Rogue" was a blanket to cover the Thief (the class we now call the Rogue) and the [[Bard]], as both of these classes shared the ability to pick locks and detect traps - it also picked up some setting-based variants, such as the Handler (a [[kender]] take on the rogue), and the [[Gypsy]]. Oh right - and [[Unearthed Arcana]]'s [[Acrobat]]. However, the bard was so much less effective at that job that the category of Rogue and the class of Thief were pretty much synonymous with each other in the fandom.

	Thus, when Wizards of the Coast took over and made D&D 3rd edition, the dropped the idea of class categories and just renamed the Thief into the Rogue, in part to give it a wider definition... But, you just can't keep something old-school down; the Thief returned as an Essentials style "simplified" version of the Rogue in 4th edition, and as a [[Skill Monkey]] subclass for the rogue in 5th edition.		Thus, when Wizards of the Coast took over and made D&D 3rd edition, the dropped the idea of class categories and just renamed the Thief into the Rogue, in part to give it a wider definition... But, you just can't keep something old-school down; the Thief returned as an Essentials style "simplified" version of the Rogue in 4th edition, and as a [[Skill Monkey]] subclass for the rogue in 5th edition.

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:11, 12 May 2023
Line 8:		Line 8:
	Their skillmonkeying is more useful in [[Pathfinder]], where they now have a lot of exclusive skill uses that other classes used to be able to do well enough with the right buffs, and they get ''rogue talents'' that give them a little more unique flavor. Yet ultimately they are outdone by the Investigator in the skillmonkey/utility part. The Investigator hybrid class has an even bigger skill list, is more reliant on Int, can buff himself with alchemy and may add 1d6(later 1d8) to his skill/attack/save rolls at will. The rogues now also have the advantage of far fewer enemies having sneak-attack immunity. Nowadays it's mostly just elementals and oozes. Have a Japan-flavored alternate class in the [[ninja]], which changes out some of those skill monkey powers for [[monk\|ki pool]] and general ''insane badassery''. Each can crosstrain in the other's special abilities.		Their skillmonkeying is more useful in [[Pathfinder]], where they now have a lot of exclusive skill uses that other classes used to be able to do well enough with the right buffs, and they get ''rogue talents'' that give them a little more unique flavor. Yet ultimately they are outdone by the Investigator in the skillmonkey/utility part. The Investigator hybrid class has an even bigger skill list, is more reliant on Int, can buff himself with alchemy and may add 1d6(later 1d8) to his skill/attack/save rolls at will. The rogues now also have the advantage of far fewer enemies having sneak-attack immunity. Nowadays it's mostly just elementals and oozes. Have a Japan-flavored alternate class in the [[ninja]], which changes out some of those skill monkey powers for [[monk\|ki pool]] and general ''insane badassery''. Each can crosstrain in the other's special abilities.

	[[Arcane Trickster]] is [[Prestige ~~class~~]] aimed as Rogues who uses casting to enhance sneakiness like a [[Gish]] uses magic to enhance smashing things. This contrasts a [[Bard]] who has casting and skill uses, but is not at all sneaky. Several attempts have been made to make this a base class. In 3.5 these include [[Spellthief]], Psychic Rogue (detailed below), and potentially [[Beguiler]], which differs in being a sneaky full caster instead of a rogue variant. There are several options for this in Pathfinder including the "Eldritch Scoundrel" archetype, which is roughly on par with a standard Arcane Trickster (unless you enter Arcane Trickster early with the Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat, then it comes out far ahead), Vivisectionist [[Alchemist (Pathfinder)\|Alchemist]] and [[Investigator]], plus [[Inquisitor (Pathfinder)\|Inquisitor]] for a divine variation. Arcane Trickser appears as a Paragon Path in 4E... which means you'll have no magic till 1/3rd of even the longest career is over. 5E makes "Arcane Trickster" one of the three core options Rogues can select as a specialty.		[[Arcane Trickster]] is [[Prestige Class]] aimed as Rogues who uses casting to enhance sneakiness like a [[Gish]] uses magic to enhance smashing things. This contrasts a [[Bard]] who has casting and skill uses, but is not at all sneaky. Several attempts have been made to make this a base class. In 3.5 these include [[Spellthief]], Psychic Rogue (detailed below), and potentially [[Beguiler]], which differs in being a sneaky full caster instead of a rogue variant. There are several options for this in Pathfinder including the "Eldritch Scoundrel" archetype, which is roughly on par with a standard Arcane Trickster (unless you enter Arcane Trickster early with the Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat, then it comes out far ahead), Vivisectionist [[Alchemist (Pathfinder)\|Alchemist]] and [[Investigator]], plus [[Inquisitor (Pathfinder)\|Inquisitor]] for a divine variation. Arcane Trickser appears as a Paragon Path in 4E... which means you'll have no magic till 1/3rd of even the longest career is over. 5E makes "Arcane Trickster" one of the three core options Rogues can select as a specialty.

	People have a bad tendency to misspell the name as [[Rouge]], which, to be fair, does involve all the same letters, but they just can't find the [[FATAL\|G-spot]].		People have a bad tendency to misspell the name as [[Rouge]], which, to be fair, does involve all the same letters, but they just can't find the [[FATAL\|G-spot]].