Second Founding - Revision history

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2023-06-22T15:58:31Z

72 revisions imported

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2023-06-19T03:41:19Z

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2A02:1810:4E2C:A900:6131:1E26:C449:F533 at 13:40, 2 June 2023

2023-06-02T13:40:42Z

202.160.36.16: /* Space Wolves */

2023-01-08T18:37:44Z

Space Wolves

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:37, 8 January 2023
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	===[[Space Wolves]]===		===[[Space Wolves]]===
	*[[Sons of Russ]]
	*[[Wolf Brothers]]		*[[Wolf Brothers]]

1d4chan>Ow, My Sanity. at 23:34, 17 March 2022

2022-03-17T23:34:24Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:34, 17 March 2022
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	In order to prevent one man from gaining as much power as [[Horus]] had, the branches of the Imperial armed forces were separated, the [[Inquisition]] was founded, and the loyal [[First Founding\|Space Marine Legions]] were divided into [[Space Marine Chapter\|Chapters]] of roughly one thousand Marines in accordance with the [[Codex Astartes]].		In order to prevent one man from gaining as much power as [[Horus]] had, the branches of the Imperial armed forces were separated, the [[Inquisition]] was founded, and the loyal [[First Founding\|Space Marine Legions]] were divided into [[Space Marine Chapter\|Chapters]] of roughly one thousand Marines in accordance with the [[Codex Astartes]].

	The Second Founding was not universally accepted; the [[Space Wolves]] and [[Imperial Fists]] in particular objected to dividing their Legions, and the [[Imperium of Man\|Imperium]] was nearly torn apart by another civil war. For better or for worse, [[Leman Russ]] was given an exemption to the Codex's requirements and [[Rogal Dorn]] finally relented, although the [[Black Templars]] have since grown their numbers to many more times the usual size - which is perfectly legal, since the Codex and the law allow "crusading chapters" to ignore the limitations due to the expectation of constant fatalities needing replacement. ~~One must wonder how much less grimdark Warhammer 40K would be if~~ the chapters ~~realized~~ that they are ''all'' technically crusading, and even if they weren't, the Great Crusade never officially ended, therefore... ~~That~~ could very quickly turn every little Astartes secession party, like the Badab War, into another Horus Heresy ~~- or not, since all of~~ the other ~~Chapters would outnumber them even more badly than they did in the Badab War. Besides~~, they could always split up into more Chapters as "we're crusading but we want to show our sincere desire to avoid another Horus Heresy so we'll split our excess instead of keeping it", which would be a nice way around the limitations while the High Lords can only grit their teeth at their loss of control. 1st Edition even says the Chapters are self-sufficient and build their own wargear and vehicles and stuff, too, so everything a Chapter needs could possibly be built by the parent Chapter.		The Second Founding was not universally accepted; the [[Space Wolves]] and [[Imperial Fists]] in particular objected to dividing their Legions, and the [[Imperium of Man\|Imperium]] was nearly torn apart by another civil war. For better or for worse, [[Leman Russ]] was given an exemption to the Codex's requirements and [[Rogal Dorn]] finally relented, although the [[Black Templars]] have since grown their numbers to many more times the usual size - which is perfectly legal, since the Codex and the law allow "crusading chapters" to ignore the limitations due to the expectation of constant fatalities needing replacement.

			Despite what you might think, exploiting this by having the chapters realize that they are ''all'' technically crusading (and even if they weren't, the Great Crusade never officially ended, therefore...) would likely be a very [[skub\|skubby]] idea; on one hand, it could very quickly turn every little Astartes secession party (like the [[Badab War]]) into another Horus Heresy and make already borderline rogue chapters even worse. On the other hand, it's possible that they could always split up into more Chapters as "we're crusading but we want to show our sincere desire to avoid another Horus Heresy so we'll split our excess instead of keeping it", which would be a nice way around the limitations while the High Lords can only grit their teeth at their loss of control.

			(1st Edition even says the Chapters are self-sufficient and build their own wargear and vehicles and stuff, too, so everything a Chapter needs could possibly be built by the parent Chapter. It's unclear how much this holds in the current setting, but it'd be implausible for the Chapters to not have at least ''some'' in-house manufacturing capability.)

	==List of Second Founding Chapters==		==List of Second Founding Chapters==
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	*[[Angels of Vigilance]] (again maybe, though this one is more likely)		*[[Angels of Vigilance]] (again maybe, though this one is more likely)

	According to ''The Unforgiven'' by Gav Thorpe, the Angels didn't get started with their Inner Circle and Fallen Hunting until some decades after the Second Founding so it may be possible that some of the Dark Angels Second Founding chapters are exempted from this practice and hierarchy. Since all twelve chapters were present at Cypher's revelation and that the majority of officers would have been veterans of the Horus Heresy and the Scouring, it's more likely that Unforgiven would been of one mind and joined willingly and any [[Blam\|dissenting voices silenced]] or sworn to absolute secrecy. While much of the truth is lost to apocrypha and LIES, it does ~~explain~~ the [[Star Phantoms]] ~~at least~~, as they might have been the Chapter where the Astartes who decided that the Fallen hunting affair would be dumb were allowed to join in exchange for vows of silence.		According to ''The Unforgiven'' by Gav Thorpe, the Angels didn't get started with their Inner Circle and Fallen Hunting until some decades after the Second Founding so it may be possible that some of the Dark Angels Second Founding chapters are exempted from this practice and hierarchy. Since all twelve chapters were present at Cypher's revelation and that the majority of officers would have been veterans of the Horus Heresy and the Scouring, it's more likely that Unforgiven would been of one mind and joined willingly and any [[Blam\|dissenting voices silenced]] or sworn to absolute secrecy.

			While much of the truth is lost to apocrypha and LIES, it does at least provide a potential explanation for the [[Star Phantoms]]' temporal fuckery, as they might have been the Chapter where the Astartes who decided that the Fallen hunting affair would be dumb were allowed to join in exchange for vows of silence.

	===[[White Scars]]===		===[[White Scars]]===
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	*[[Soul Drinkers]] (sort of, it's a long story)		*[[Soul Drinkers]] (sort of, it's a long story)
	*[[Excoriators]]		*[[Excoriators]]
	*[[Fists Exemplar]]: Mostly destroyed by [[The Beast]]. ~~The survivors were absorbed into the Imperial Fists, and by absorbed we mean constituted the majority~~ of the ~~successor donated Marines when~~ the ~~actual~~ Imperial Fists ~~were destroyed in that war~~ under the Last Wall Protocol ~~making all Imperial Fists successors technically Imperial Fists at the time~~, ~~while a~~ unit that lost contact in the fighting defected to the [[Iron Warriors]] ~~minus one company which managed~~ to ~~return also joined~~ the ~~rebuilt Fists.~~		*[[Fists Exemplar]]: Mostly destroyed by [[The Beast]]. Majority of the survivors went on to re-establish the destroyed Imperial Fists under the Last Wall Protocol, barring one unit that lost contact in the fighting and defected to the [[Iron Warriors]]. The records of the Fists Exemplar were subsequently put to the torch by their own Chapter Master to cover up the shame of being the first Chapter to (technically) fall to Chaos since the days of the [[Horus Heresy]]
	*[[Iron Knights]] (found before Fourth Founding)		*[[Iron Knights]] (found before Fourth Founding)

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	===[[Grey Knights]]===		===[[Grey Knights]]===
	The Grey Knights were not created from any of the Space Marine Legions, as their [[gene-seed]] was specially created by the [[God-Emperor of Mankind]] himself and their founding members were hand-picked by [[Malcador the Sigillite]]; ~~many~~ of ~~them~~ were loyalists who had formerly been a part of a [[Chaos Space Marines\|Traitor Legion]] (~~<s>e.g.~~ [[~~Nathaniel Garro~~]], [[~~Garviel Loken~~]]~~, and~~ [[~~Iacton Qruze~~]]~~</s> all three were Knights-Errant and none of them ended up joining~~ the ~~Grey Knights in~~ the ~~end~~). They were founded to supply the newly-formed [[Inquisition]] with a strike force against future [[Chaos]] threats.		The Grey Knights were not created from any of the Space Marine Legions, as their [[gene-seed]] was specially created by the [[God-Emperor of Mankind]] himself and their founding members were hand-picked by [[Malcador the Sigillite]]; at least two of the eight founding Grand Masters were loyalists who had formerly been a part of a [[Chaos Space Marines\|Traitor Legion]] (Revuel Arvida/Janus, [[Thousand Sons]]; Iapto/Severian "the Wolf", [[Luna Wolves]]; Crius/[[Garvel Loken]] would have been the ninth had he not refused the position). They were founded to supply the newly-formed [[Inquisition]] with a strike force against future [[Chaos]] threats.

	===Unknown===		===Unknown===
	Some chapters have histories which stretch back to the Second Founding but have deliberately obfuscated their parent legion for one reason or another.		Some chapters have histories which stretch back to the Second Founding but have deliberately obfuscated their parent legion for one reason or another.
	*[[Red Hunters]]		*[[Red Hunters]] - likely down to their status as the Inquisition's lapdogs, which results in regular mind-scrubbing and their history being [[1984]]'d after every few campaigns. They're implied to be Second Founding, however.
	*[[Purple Stars]]		*[[Purple Stars]]

71.67.140.35: /* Grey Knights */

2021-07-09T15:09:13Z

Grey Knights

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:09, 9 July 2021
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	===[[Grey Knights]]===		===[[Grey Knights]]===
	The Grey Knights were not created from any of the Space Marine Legions, as their [[gene-seed]] was specially created by the [[God-Emperor of Mankind]] himself and their founding members were hand-picked by [[Malcador the Sigillite]]; many of them were loyalists who had formerly been a part of a [[Chaos Space Marines\|Traitor Legion]] (<s>e.g. [[Nathaniel Garro]], [[Garviel Loken]], and [[Iacton Qruze]]</s> all three were ~~Knight~~-~~Errants~~ and none of them ended up joining the Grey Knights in the end). They were founded to supply the newly-formed [[Inquisition]] with a strike force against future [[Chaos]] threats.		The Grey Knights were not created from any of the Space Marine Legions, as their [[gene-seed]] was specially created by the [[God-Emperor of Mankind]] himself and their founding members were hand-picked by [[Malcador the Sigillite]]; many of them were loyalists who had formerly been a part of a [[Chaos Space Marines\|Traitor Legion]] (<s>e.g. [[Nathaniel Garro]], [[Garviel Loken]], and [[Iacton Qruze]]</s> all three were Knights-Errant and none of them ended up joining the Grey Knights in the end). They were founded to supply the newly-formed [[Inquisition]] with a strike force against future [[Chaos]] threats.

	===Unknown===		===Unknown===

104.220.162.108: /* Salamanders */

2021-05-15T21:58:46Z

Salamanders

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:58, 15 May 2021
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	===[[Salamanders]]===		===[[Salamanders]]===
	''None, as there weren't enough Salamanders left after the [[Horus Heresy]] to fill one Chapter, let alone two.		None, as there weren't enough Salamanders left after the [[Horus Heresy]] to fill one Chapter, let alone two.

	===[[Raven Guard]]===		===[[Raven Guard]]===

104.220.162.108: /* Unknown */

2021-05-15T21:52:04Z

Unknown

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:52, 15 May 2021
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	===Unknown===		===Unknown===
	Some chapters have histories which stretch back to the Second Founding, but ~~who~~ have deliberately obfuscated their parent legion for one reason or another.		Some chapters have histories which stretch back to the Second Founding but have deliberately obfuscated their parent legion for one reason or another.
	*[[Red Hunters]]		*[[Red Hunters]]
	*[[Purple Stars]]		*[[Purple Stars]]

104.220.162.108: /* List of Second Founding Chapters */

2021-05-15T21:51:21Z

List of Second Founding Chapters

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:51, 15 May 2021
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	*[[Angels of Redemption]]		*[[Angels of Redemption]]
	*[[Angels of Vengeance]]		*[[Angels of Vengeance]]
	*[[Lions Sable]] (~~They were~~ destroyed trying to apprehend several Fallen in what was later revealed to be a massive trap set by [[Cypher]] shortly before [[The Beheading]] and all records of their existence were erased to hide the involvement of the Fallen in their collapse.)		*[[Lions Sable]] (destroyed trying to apprehend several Fallen in what was later revealed to be a massive trap set by [[Cypher]] shortly before [[The Beheading]] and all records of their existence were erased to hide the involvement of the Fallen in their collapse.)
	*[[Star Phantoms]] ~~- ''~~([[A Game of Pretend\|maybe]], though this chapter definitely did exist in M31)''		*[[Star Phantoms]] ([[A Game of Pretend\|maybe]], though this chapter definitely did exist in M31)
	*[[Angels of Vigilance]] ~~- ''~~(~~Again,~~ maybe, though this one is more likely)''		*[[Angels of Vigilance]] (again maybe, though this one is more likely)

	According to ''The Unforgiven'' by Gav Thorpe, the Angels didn't get started with their Inner Circle and Fallen Hunting until some decades after the Second Founding so it may be possible that some of the Dark Angels Second Founding chapters are exempted from this practice and hierarchy. ~~Though since~~ all twelve chapters were present at Cypher's revelation and that the majority of officers would have been veterans of the Horus Heresy and the Scouring, it's more likely that Unforgiven would been of one mind and joined willingly and any [[Blam\|dissenting voices silenced]] or sworn to absolute secrecy. While much of the truth is lost to apocrypha and LIES, it does explain the [[Star Phantoms]] at least, as they might have been the Chapter where the Astartes who decided that the Fallen hunting affair would be dumb were allowed to join ~~together in,~~ in exchange for vows of silence.		According to ''The Unforgiven'' by Gav Thorpe, the Angels didn't get started with their Inner Circle and Fallen Hunting until some decades after the Second Founding so it may be possible that some of the Dark Angels Second Founding chapters are exempted from this practice and hierarchy. Since all twelve chapters were present at Cypher's revelation and that the majority of officers would have been veterans of the Horus Heresy and the Scouring, it's more likely that Unforgiven would been of one mind and joined willingly and any [[Blam\|dissenting voices silenced]] or sworn to absolute secrecy. While much of the truth is lost to apocrypha and LIES, it does explain the [[Star Phantoms]] at least, as they might have been the Chapter where the Astartes who decided that the Fallen hunting affair would be dumb were allowed to join in exchange for vows of silence.

	===[[White Scars]]===		===[[White Scars]]===
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	*[[Soul Drinkers]] (sort of, it's a long story)		*[[Soul Drinkers]] (sort of, it's a long story)
	*[[Excoriators]]		*[[Excoriators]]
	*[[Fists Exemplar]] (Mostly destroyed by [[The Beast]]. The survivors were absorbed into the Imperial Fists, and by absorbed we mean constituted the majority of the successor donated Marines when the actual Imperial Fists were destroyed in that war under the Last Wall Protocol making all Imperial Fists successors technically Imperial Fists at the time, while a unit that lost contact in the fighting defected to the [[Iron Warriors]] minus one company which managed to return also joined the rebuilt Fists)		*[[Fists Exemplar]]: Mostly destroyed by [[The Beast]]. The survivors were absorbed into the Imperial Fists, and by absorbed we mean constituted the majority of the successor donated Marines when the actual Imperial Fists were destroyed in that war under the Last Wall Protocol making all Imperial Fists successors technically Imperial Fists at the time, while a unit that lost contact in the fighting defected to the [[Iron Warriors]] minus one company which managed to return also joined the rebuilt Fists.
	*[[Iron Knights]] (~~Found~~ before Fourth Founding)		*[[Iron Knights]] (found before Fourth Founding)

	===[[Blood Angels]]===		===[[Blood Angels]]===
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	Also note that the Ultramarines "adopted" some of the loyalist forces from otherwise traitorous legions and permitted them to call themselves Ultramarine Second Founding chapters. More details can be found [[Traitor_Legion_Loyalists#The_Ultramarine.27s_Second_Founding_Connection\|here]].		Also note that the Ultramarines "adopted" some of the loyalist forces from otherwise traitorous legions and permitted them to call themselves Ultramarine Second Founding chapters. More details can be found [[Traitor_Legion_Loyalists#The_Ultramarine.27s_Second_Founding_Connection\|here]].

	The [[Scythes of the Emperor]] were the Ultramarines 199th Company on Sotha, who became the Ultramarines [[Heresy\|eleventh]] company as part of the second founding~~, as~~ Guilliman unofficially gave himself an extra company to guard the Pharos device, but after he placed in stasis following his injuries at the hands of Fulgrim they were eventually rolled into their own chapter during the Third Founding.		The [[Scythes of the Emperor]] were the Ultramarines 199th Company on Sotha, who became the Ultramarines [[Heresy\|eleventh]] company as part of the second founding; Guilliman unofficially gave himself an extra company to guard the Pharos device, but after he was placed in stasis following his injuries at the hands of Fulgrim they were eventually rolled into their own chapter during the Third Founding.

	===[[Salamanders]]===		===[[Salamanders]]===
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	===[[Grey Knights]]===		===[[Grey Knights]]===
	''The Grey Knights were not created from any of the Space Marine Legions, as their [[gene-seed]] was specially created by the [[God-Emperor of Mankind]] himself and their founding members were hand-picked by [[Malcador the Sigillite]]; many of them were loyalists who had formerly been a part of a [[Chaos Space Marines\|Traitor Legion]] (<s>e.g. [[Nathaniel Garro]], [[Garviel Loken]], and [[Iacton Qruze]].</s> ~~Although~~ all three were Knight-Errants, none of them ended up joining the Grey Knights in the end). They were founded to supply the newly-formed [[Inquisition]] with a strike force against future [[Chaos]] threats.''		The Grey Knights were not created from any of the Space Marine Legions, as their [[gene-seed]] was specially created by the [[God-Emperor of Mankind]] himself and their founding members were hand-picked by [[Malcador the Sigillite]]; many of them were loyalists who had formerly been a part of a [[Chaos Space Marines\|Traitor Legion]] (<s>e.g. [[Nathaniel Garro]], [[Garviel Loken]], and [[Iacton Qruze]]</s> all three were Knight-Errants and none of them ended up joining the Grey Knights in the end). They were founded to supply the newly-formed [[Inquisition]] with a strike force against future [[Chaos]] threats.

	===Unknown===		===Unknown===

104.220.162.108 at 21:47, 15 May 2021

2021-05-15T21:47:52Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:47, 15 May 2021
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	The [[Horus Heresy]] proved that, despite the [[God-Emperor of Mankind\|Emperor's]] efforts, the [[Primarch]]s were not perfect; they could easily be led astray and fall to [[Chaos]].		The [[Horus Heresy]] proved that, despite the [[God-Emperor of Mankind\|Emperor's]] efforts, the [[Primarch]]s were not perfect; they could easily be led astray and fall to [[Chaos]].

	In order to prevent one man from gaining as much power as [[Horus]] had, the branches of the Imperial armed forces were separated, the [[Inquisition]] was founded, and the loyal [[First Founding\|Space Marine Legions]] were divided into [[Space Marine Chapter\|Chapters]] of roughly one thousand Marines, in accordance with the [[Codex Astartes]].		In order to prevent one man from gaining as much power as [[Horus]] had, the branches of the Imperial armed forces were separated, the [[Inquisition]] was founded, and the loyal [[First Founding\|Space Marine Legions]] were divided into [[Space Marine Chapter\|Chapters]] of roughly one thousand Marines in accordance with the [[Codex Astartes]].

	The Second Founding was not universally accepted; the [[Space Wolves]] and [[Imperial Fists]], in particular, objected to dividing their Legions, and the [[Imperium of Man\|Imperium]] was nearly torn apart by another civil war. For better or for worse, [[Leman Russ]] was given an exemption to the Codex's requirements and [[Rogal Dorn]] finally relented, although the [[Black Templars]] have since grown their numbers to many more times the usual size - which is perfectly legal, since the Codex and the law allow "crusading chapters" to ignore the limitations due to the expectation of constant fatalities needing replacement. One must wonder how much less grimdark Warhammer 40K would be if the chapters ''all'' ~~realized that they are all~~ technically crusading, and even if they weren't, the Great Crusade never officially ended, therefore...~~yeah. Although that would~~ very quickly turn every little Astartes secession party, like the Badab War, into another Horus Heresy~~. Well,~~ not ~~really~~, since all of the other Chapters would outnumber them even more badly than they did in the Badab War. Besides, they could always split up into more Chapters as "we're crusading but we want to show our sincere desire to avoid another Horus Heresy so we'll split our excess instead of keeping it"~~. A~~ nice way around the limitations ~~and~~ the High Lords can only grit their teeth at their loss of control. 1st Edition even says the Chapters are self-sufficient and build their own wargear and vehicles and stuff, too, so everything a Chapter needs could possibly be built by the parent Chapter.		The Second Founding was not universally accepted; the [[Space Wolves]] and [[Imperial Fists]] in particular objected to dividing their Legions, and the [[Imperium of Man\|Imperium]] was nearly torn apart by another civil war. For better or for worse, [[Leman Russ]] was given an exemption to the Codex's requirements and [[Rogal Dorn]] finally relented, although the [[Black Templars]] have since grown their numbers to many more times the usual size - which is perfectly legal, since the Codex and the law allow "crusading chapters" to ignore the limitations due to the expectation of constant fatalities needing replacement. One must wonder how much less grimdark Warhammer 40K would be if the chapters realized that they are ''all'' technically crusading, and even if they weren't, the Great Crusade never officially ended, therefore... That could very quickly turn every little Astartes secession party, like the Badab War, into another Horus Heresy - or not, since all of the other Chapters would outnumber them even more badly than they did in the Badab War. Besides, they could always split up into more Chapters as "we're crusading but we want to show our sincere desire to avoid another Horus Heresy so we'll split our excess instead of keeping it", which would be a nice way around the limitations while the High Lords can only grit their teeth at their loss of control. 1st Edition even says the Chapters are self-sufficient and build their own wargear and vehicles and stuff, too, so everything a Chapter needs could possibly be built by the parent Chapter.

	==List of Second Founding Chapters==		==List of Second Founding Chapters==

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:40, 2 June 2023
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	In order to prevent one man from gaining as much power as [[Horus]] had, the branches of the Imperial armed forces were separated, the [[Inquisition]] was founded, and the loyal [[First Founding\|Space Marine Legions]] were divided into [[Space Marine Chapter\|Chapters]] of roughly one thousand Marines in accordance with the [[Codex Astartes]].		In order to prevent one man from gaining as much power as [[Horus]] had, the branches of the Imperial armed forces were separated, the [[Inquisition]] was founded, and the loyal [[First Founding\|Space Marine Legions]] were divided into [[Space Marine Chapter\|Chapters]] of roughly one thousand Marines in accordance with the [[Codex Astartes]].

	The Second Founding was not universally accepted; the [[Space Wolves]] and [[Imperial Fists]] in particular objected to dividing their Legions, and the [[Imperium of Man\|Imperium]] was nearly torn apart by another civil war. For better or for worse, [[Leman Russ]] was given an exemption to the Codex's requirements and [[Rogal Dorn]] finally relented, although the [[Black Templars]] have since grown their numbers to many more times the usual size - which is perfectly legal, since the Codex and the law allow "crusading chapters" to ignore the limitations due to the expectation of constant fatalities needing replacement.		The Second Founding was not universally accepted; the [[Space Wolves]] and [[Imperial Fists]] in particular objected to dividing their Legions, and the [[Imperium of Man\|Imperium]] was nearly torn apart by another civil war. For better or for worse, [[Leman Russ]] was given an exemption to the Codex's requirements and [[Rogal Dorn]] finally relented, although the [[Black Templars]] have since grown their numbers to many more times the usual size - which is perfectly legal, since the Codex and the law allow "crusading chapters" to ignore the limitations due to the expectation of constant fatalities needing replacement.

	Despite what you might think, exploiting this by having the chapters realize that they are ''all'' technically crusading (and even if they weren't, the Great Crusade never officially ended, therefore...) would likely be a very [[skub\|skubby]] idea; on one hand, it could very quickly turn every little Astartes secession party (like the [[Badab War]]) into another Horus Heresy and make already borderline rogue chapters even worse. On the other hand, it's possible that they could always split up into more Chapters as "we're crusading but we want to show our sincere desire to avoid another Horus Heresy so we'll split our excess instead of keeping it", which would be a nice way around the limitations while the High Lords can only grit their teeth at their loss of control.		Despite what you might think, exploiting this by having the chapters realize that they are ''all'' technically crusading (and even if they weren't, the Great Crusade never officially ended, therefore...) would likely be a very [[skub\|skubby]] idea; on one hand, it could very quickly turn every little Astartes secession party (like the [[Badab War]]) into another Horus Heresy and make already borderline rogue chapters even worse. On the other hand, it's possible that they could always split up into more Chapters as "we're crusading but we want to show our sincere desire to avoid another Horus Heresy so we'll split our excess instead of keeping it", which would be a nice way around the limitations while the High Lords can only grit their teeth at their loss of control.

	(1st Edition even says the Chapters are self-sufficient and build their own wargear and vehicles and stuff, too, so everything a Chapter needs could possibly be built by the parent Chapter. It's unclear how much this holds in the current setting, but it'd be implausible for the Chapters to not have at least ''some'' in-house manufacturing capability.)		(1st Edition even says the Chapters are self-sufficient and build their own wargear and vehicles and stuff, too, so everything a Chapter needs could possibly be built by the parent Chapter. It's unclear how much this holds in the current setting, but it'd be implausible for the Chapters to not have at least ''some'' in-house manufacturing capability.)
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	*[[Angels of Vigilance]] (again maybe, though this one is more likely)		*[[Angels of Vigilance]] (again maybe, though this one is more likely)

	According to ''The Unforgiven'' by Gav Thorpe, the Angels didn't get started with their Inner Circle and Fallen Hunting until some decades after the Second Founding so it may be possible that some of the Dark Angels Second Founding chapters are exempted from this practice and hierarchy. Since all twelve chapters were present at Cypher's revelation and that the majority of officers would have been veterans of the Horus Heresy and the Scouring, it's more likely that Unforgiven would been of one mind and joined willingly and any [[Blam\|dissenting voices silenced]] or sworn to absolute secrecy.		According to ''The Unforgiven'' by Gav Thorpe, the Angels didn't get started with their Inner Circle and Fallen Hunting until some decades after the Second Founding so it may be possible that some of the Dark Angels Second Founding chapters are exempted from this practice and hierarchy. Since all twelve chapters were present at Cypher's revelation and that the majority of officers would have been veterans of the Horus Heresy and the Scouring, it's more likely that Unforgiven would been of one mind and joined willingly and any [[Blam\|dissenting voices silenced]] or sworn to absolute secrecy.

	While much of the truth is lost to apocrypha and LIES, it does at least provide a potential explanation for the [[Star Phantoms]]' temporal fuckery, as they might have been the Chapter where the Astartes who decided that the Fallen hunting affair would be dumb were allowed to join in exchange for vows of silence.		While much of the truth is lost to apocrypha and LIES, it does at least provide a potential explanation for the [[Star Phantoms]]' temporal fuckery, as they might have been the Chapter where the Astartes who decided that the Fallen hunting affair would be dumb were allowed to join in exchange for vows of silence.
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	*[[Soul Drinkers]] (sort of, it's a long story)		*[[Soul Drinkers]] (sort of, it's a long story)
	*[[Excoriators]]		*[[Excoriators]]
	*[[Fists Exemplar]]: Mostly destroyed by [[The Beast]]. Majority of the survivors went on to re-establish the destroyed Imperial Fists under the Last Wall Protocol, barring one unit that lost contact in the fighting and defected to the [[Iron Warriors]]. The records of the Fists Exemplar were subsequently put to the torch by their own Chapter Master to cover up the shame of being the first Chapter to (technically) fall to Chaos since the days of the [[Horus Heresy]]		*[[Fists Exemplar]]: Mostly destroyed by [[The Beast]]. Majority of the survivors went on to re-establish the destroyed Imperial Fists under the Last Wall Protocol, barring one unit that lost contact in the fighting and defected to the [[Iron Warriors]]. The records of the Fists Exemplar were subsequently put to the torch by their own Chapter Master to cover up the shame of being the first Chapter to (technically) fall to Chaos since the days of the [[Horus Heresy]]
	*[[Iron Knights]] (found before Fourth Founding)		*[[Iron Knights]] (found before Fourth Founding)