Space Marines - Revision history

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Creation

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	==Creation==		==Creation==
	[[File:1396451926378.jpg\|400px\|thumb\|right\|From deranged lab-experiment to fucking [[awesome]].]]		[[File:1396451926378.jpg\|400px\|thumb\|right\|From deranged lab-experiment to fucking [[awesome]].]]
	Knowing [[Chaos\|just]] [[Tyranids\|what]] [[Necron\|the]] [[Dark Eldar\|fuck]] [[Ork\|was]] [[Eldar\|waiting]] for humanity in space, the Emperor of Mankind designed the [[gene-seed]], [[Gene-seed#The_Organs\|nineteen special organs]] to enhance the regular human body to keep the Space Marines going when fighting these monstrosities. Over a series of several years, human adolescents, dubbed aspirants, are selected through a rigorous process which varies from Chapter to Chapter. They are always male, with cited reasons including that Astartes are basically clones of their Primarchs, and by extension the Emperor, and that the geneseed requires portions of the Y-chromosome to function. They are also probably, given such individuals are logical sources to look for talent in combat, [[Grimdark\|some form of child soldier]]. When their training goes to the next stage, the aspirants are implanted with the initial gene-seed. They then become neophytes, Space Marines in training. As the gene-seed is implanted into them, the neophytes also go through hypnotic conditioning to hone their responses. By the time they're done, the subject has few impulses beyond fighting and killing in the name of the Emperor (it's sometimes thought that this is what kills their sex drive) and most of their memories of their earlier lives are all but forgotten. The only mental frailties remaining are a "fear" (ATSKNF notwithstanding) of failure and experiencing notable stress when severely injured or crippled, as they are no longer able to fulfill their function.		Knowing [[Chaos\|just]] [[Tyranids\|what]] [[Necron\|the]] [[Dark Eldar\|fuck]] [[Ork\|was]] [[Eldar\|waiting]] for humanity in space, the Emperor of Mankind designed the [[gene-seed]], [[Gene-seed#The_Organs\|nineteen special organs]] to enhance the regular human body to keep the Space Marines going when fighting these monstrosities. Over a series of several years, human adolescents, dubbed aspirants, are selected through a rigorous process which varies from Chapter to Chapter. They are always male, with cited reasons including that Astartes are basically clones of their Primarchs, and by extension the Emperor, and that the geneseed requires portions of the Y-chromosome to function, extreme amounts of testosterone, women just plain being weaker and far more emotional than men and therefore would cost more to bring up to snuff, etc. They are also probably, given such individuals are logical sources to look for talent in combat, [[Grimdark\|some form of child soldier]]. When their training goes to the next stage, the aspirants are implanted with the initial gene-seed. They then become neophytes, Space Marines in training. As the gene-seed is implanted into them, the neophytes also go through hypnotic conditioning to hone their responses. By the time they're done, the subject has few impulses beyond fighting and killing in the name of the Emperor (it's sometimes thought that this is what kills their sex drive) and most of their memories of their earlier lives are all but forgotten. The only mental frailties remaining are a "fear" (ATSKNF notwithstanding) of failure and experiencing notable stress when severely injured or crippled, as they are no longer able to fulfill their function.

	After receiving all these organs and conditioning, it's highly arguable if a Space Marine still qualifies as human. Though the [[Imperium of Man]] has basic "kill on sight" orders for most non-humans and venerates the "Holy Human Form", the topic of whether or not Space Marines violate this edict is ignored, mostly because they were designed by the Emperor and thus considered holy creations. There is also an understandable hesitance to declare war on the only thing standing between the Imperium and the unfathomable evil of the [[Chaos Gods]]. Arguably Marines are no less human than those of the Mechanicum, just with organic implants instead of bionics, and cog boys still count as 100% right and proper humans (even if most of them consider themselves a separate species or at least "humans 2.0").		After receiving all these organs and conditioning, it's highly arguable if a Space Marine still qualifies as human. Though the [[Imperium of Man]] has basic "kill on sight" orders for most non-humans and venerates the "Holy Human Form", the topic of whether or not Space Marines violate this edict is ignored, mostly because they were designed by the Emperor and thus considered holy creations. There is also an understandable hesitance to declare war on the only thing standing between the Imperium and the unfathomable evil of the [[Chaos Gods]]. Arguably Marines are no less human than those of the Mechanicum, just with organic implants instead of bionics, and cog boys still count as 100% right and proper humans (even if most of them consider themselves a separate species or at least "humans 2.0").

217.180.196.69 at 19:09, 5 June 2023

2023-06-05T19:09:50Z

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	Contrary to that, [[fluff]]-wise Space Marines are amongst the smallest factions in the game. With Loyalist Marines combined they number just above one million in a galaxy where the Imperium alone has more or less a million honest to God inhabited worlds (deepshit colonies with a population of only a few million may or may not be included in that number). In fact, any single capital-class space ship may have a population higher than the entirety of Marines in the Galaxy. Furthermore, Marine armies are extremely fractured, very rarely deployed at above a company per war zone. GW never cared to explain how forces so small could have such a huge impact on the battlefields, when Orks, Guard, and Tyranids could field their troops in the millions, and Chaos can convert entire populations of planets (which is often tens of billions), though by rubbing two brain-cells together we can imagine a combination of them being just that powerful and focusing on opening opportunities for their Strike Cruiser or Battle Barge to blow everyone up. (While the scale is certainly off, it might be less off than you think. Space marines are more "armor" than "infantry". In WWII, entire campaigns involving millions of soldiers have been decided by battles focused around some hundred tanks, although this argument ignores that Astartes are infantry and that those battles mattered only due to the hundreds of thousands of other tanks also fighting, fundamentally there are too many important locations on a planet for a hundred or even a thousand maybe hundred thousand Space Marines to matter). Regardless, everything that is something in the setting has a tendency to at least have a bit Space Marines in it, if they aren't flat-out the protagonists. Expect enormous campaigns to revolve around a few companies, regardless of the involved numbers of Guardsmen and enemy xenos and chaotic characters, and the Marines to be the key to victory in any given war.		Contrary to that, [[fluff]]-wise Space Marines are amongst the smallest factions in the game. With Loyalist Marines combined they number just above one million in a galaxy where the Imperium alone has more or less a million honest to God inhabited worlds (deepshit colonies with a population of only a few million may or may not be included in that number). In fact, any single capital-class space ship may have a population higher than the entirety of Marines in the Galaxy. Furthermore, Marine armies are extremely fractured, very rarely deployed at above a company per war zone. GW never cared to explain how forces so small could have such a huge impact on the battlefields, when Orks, Guard, and Tyranids could field their troops in the millions, and Chaos can convert entire populations of planets (which is often tens of billions), though by rubbing two brain-cells together we can imagine a combination of them being just that powerful and focusing on opening opportunities for their Strike Cruiser or Battle Barge to blow everyone up. (While the scale is certainly off, it might be less off than you think. Space marines are more "armor" than "infantry". In WWII, entire campaigns involving millions of soldiers have been decided by battles focused around some hundred tanks, although this argument ignores that Astartes are infantry and that those battles mattered only due to the hundreds of thousands of other tanks also fighting, fundamentally there are too many important locations on a planet for a hundred or even a thousand maybe hundred thousand Space Marines to matter). Regardless, everything that is something in the setting has a tendency to at least have a bit Space Marines in it, if they aren't flat-out the protagonists. Expect enormous campaigns to revolve around a few companies, regardless of the involved numbers of Guardsmen and enemy xenos and chaotic characters, and the Marines to be the key to victory in any given war.

	The main reason for the small numbers, though, seems to be that [[Games Workshop]] and the [[Black Library]] authors have no sense of scale. For example, the largest battle of the Great Crusade was the battle for what became known as Armageddon. It had a measly eight million soldiers and several hundred thousand Space Marines. To say nothing of Mechanicus forces. Fast forward ten thousand years and most major battles or campaigns of the setting that require Space Marines only have dozens to hundreds of regiments, the average regiment size being ten thousand men in the lore. Either because you only need to take out a shield generator, that miraculously is the only one or one of a few instead of bajillions around the globe, so the Navy can wipe out the enemy or, more likely, ~~Games Workshop has absolutely no~~ concept of scale. So, in battles that actually need Astartes there will usually be rough one Marine per one hundred or one thousand Guardsmen depending on how important the battle is. A battle with dozens of regiments often has elements of multiple Chapters involved and easily can have several thousand Marines of various Chapters fighting in the battle. On top of that, it is rare for Astartes to be needed in the first place outside of major invasions of strategically important worlds by particularly advanced alien or daemonic threats. When coupled with the complete lack of any ability to comprehend scale on the writers’ part, the small numbers or Space Marines are plenty sufficient for the Imperium’s needs.		The main reason for the small numbers, though, seems to be that [[Games Workshop]] and the [[Black Library]] authors have no sense of scale. For example, the largest battle of the Great Crusade was the battle for what became known as Armageddon. It had a measly eight million soldiers and several hundred thousand Space Marines. To say nothing of Mechanicus forces. Fast forward ten thousand years and most major battles or campaigns of the setting that require Space Marines only have dozens to hundreds of regiments, the average regiment size being ten thousand men in the lore. Either because you only need to take out a shield generator, that miraculously is the only one or one of a few instead of bajillions around the globe, so the Navy can wipe out the enemy or, more likely, the aforementioned non-existent concept of scale. So, in battles that actually need Astartes there will usually be rough one Marine per one hundred or one thousand Guardsmen depending on how important the battle is. A battle with dozens of regiments often has elements of multiple Chapters involved and easily can have several thousand Marines of various Chapters fighting in the battle. On top of that, it is rare for Astartes to be needed in the first place outside of major invasions of strategically important worlds by particularly advanced alien or daemonic threats. When coupled with the complete lack of any ability to comprehend scale on the writers’ part, the small numbers or Space Marines are plenty sufficient for the Imperium’s needs.

	Space Marines the selves specialize in achieving strategic objectives for the Imperial Guard and Mechanicus forces to capitalize on. Give them a mission and it will be completed. Making sure their success matters is up to everyone else. Each company is often spread across a planetary conflict since each Marine is so powerful that hardly any are needed to achieve a vital objective when supported by Guard forces such as tanks and artillery. Even at the tactical level aiding the Imperial Guard a single Marine will simply move around the skirmish to key points and curbstomp to make the enemy incapable of having any hope of victory. Basically, a Chapter of Space Marines should not be thought of as an army but as a collective of Master Chiefs.		Space Marines the selves specialize in achieving strategic objectives for the Imperial Guard and Mechanicus forces to capitalize on. Give them a mission and it will be completed. Making sure their success matters is up to everyone else. Each company is often spread across a planetary conflict since each Marine is so powerful that hardly any are needed to achieve a vital objective when supported by Guard forces such as tanks and artillery. Even at the tactical level aiding the Imperial Guard a single Marine will simply move around the skirmish to key points and curbstomp to make the enemy incapable of having any hope of victory. Basically, a Chapter of Space Marines should not be thought of as an army but as a collective of Master Chiefs.

217.180.196.69 at 19:06, 5 June 2023

2023-06-05T19:06:34Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:06, 5 June 2023
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	Contrary to that, [[fluff]]-wise Space Marines are amongst the smallest factions in the game. With Loyalist Marines combined they number just above one million in a galaxy where the Imperium alone has more or less a million honest to God inhabited worlds (deepshit colonies with a population of only a few million may or may not be included in that number). In fact, any single capital-class space ship may have a population higher than the entirety of Marines in the Galaxy. Furthermore, Marine armies are extremely fractured, very rarely deployed at above a company per war zone. GW never cared to explain how forces so small could have such a huge impact on the battlefields, when Orks, Guard, and Tyranids could field their troops in the millions, and Chaos can convert entire populations of planets (which is often tens of billions), though by rubbing two brain-cells together we can imagine a combination of them being just that powerful and focusing on opening opportunities for their Strike Cruiser or Battle Barge to blow everyone up. (While the scale is certainly off, it might be less off than you think. Space marines are more "armor" than "infantry". In WWII, entire campaigns involving millions of soldiers have been decided by battles focused around some hundred tanks, although this argument ignores that Astartes are infantry and that those battles mattered only due to the hundreds of thousands of other tanks also fighting, fundamentally there are too many important locations on a planet for a hundred or even a thousand maybe hundred thousand Space Marines to matter). Regardless, everything that is something in the setting has a tendency to at least have a bit Space Marines in it, if they aren't flat-out the protagonists. Expect enormous campaigns to revolve around a few companies, regardless of the involved numbers of Guardsmen and enemy xenos and chaotic characters, and the Marines to be the key to victory in any given war.		Contrary to that, [[fluff]]-wise Space Marines are amongst the smallest factions in the game. With Loyalist Marines combined they number just above one million in a galaxy where the Imperium alone has more or less a million honest to God inhabited worlds (deepshit colonies with a population of only a few million may or may not be included in that number). In fact, any single capital-class space ship may have a population higher than the entirety of Marines in the Galaxy. Furthermore, Marine armies are extremely fractured, very rarely deployed at above a company per war zone. GW never cared to explain how forces so small could have such a huge impact on the battlefields, when Orks, Guard, and Tyranids could field their troops in the millions, and Chaos can convert entire populations of planets (which is often tens of billions), though by rubbing two brain-cells together we can imagine a combination of them being just that powerful and focusing on opening opportunities for their Strike Cruiser or Battle Barge to blow everyone up. (While the scale is certainly off, it might be less off than you think. Space marines are more "armor" than "infantry". In WWII, entire campaigns involving millions of soldiers have been decided by battles focused around some hundred tanks, although this argument ignores that Astartes are infantry and that those battles mattered only due to the hundreds of thousands of other tanks also fighting, fundamentally there are too many important locations on a planet for a hundred or even a thousand maybe hundred thousand Space Marines to matter). Regardless, everything that is something in the setting has a tendency to at least have a bit Space Marines in it, if they aren't flat-out the protagonists. Expect enormous campaigns to revolve around a few companies, regardless of the involved numbers of Guardsmen and enemy xenos and chaotic characters, and the Marines to be the key to victory in any given war.

	The main reason for the small numbers, though, seems to be that [[Games Workshop]] and the [[Black Library]] authors have no sense of scale. For example, the largest battle of the Great Crusade was the battle for what became known as Armageddon. It had a measly eight million soldiers and several hundred thousand Space Marines. To say nothing of Mechanicus forces. Fast forward ten thousand years and most major battles or campaigns of the setting that require Space Marines only have dozens to hundreds of regiments, the average regiment size being ten thousand men in the lore. So, in battles that actually need Astartes there will usually be rough one Marine per one hundred or one thousand Guardsmen depending on how important the battle is. A battle with dozens of regiments often has elements of multiple Chapters involved and easily can have several thousand Marines of various Chapters fighting in the battle. On top of that, it is rare for Astartes to be needed in the first place outside of major invasions of strategically important worlds by particularly advanced alien or daemonic threats. When coupled with the complete lack of any ability to comprehend scale on the writers’ part, the small numbers or Space Marines are plenty sufficient for the Imperium’s needs.		The main reason for the small numbers, though, seems to be that [[Games Workshop]] and the [[Black Library]] authors have no sense of scale. For example, the largest battle of the Great Crusade was the battle for what became known as Armageddon. It had a measly eight million soldiers and several hundred thousand Space Marines. To say nothing of Mechanicus forces. Fast forward ten thousand years and most major battles or campaigns of the setting that require Space Marines only have dozens to hundreds of regiments, the average regiment size being ten thousand men in the lore. Either because you only need to take out a shield generator, that miraculously is the only one or one of a few instead of bajillions around the globe, so the Navy can wipe out the enemy or, more likely, Games Workshop has absolutely no concept of scale. So, in battles that actually need Astartes there will usually be rough one Marine per one hundred or one thousand Guardsmen depending on how important the battle is. A battle with dozens of regiments often has elements of multiple Chapters involved and easily can have several thousand Marines of various Chapters fighting in the battle. On top of that, it is rare for Astartes to be needed in the first place outside of major invasions of strategically important worlds by particularly advanced alien or daemonic threats. When coupled with the complete lack of any ability to comprehend scale on the writers’ part, the small numbers or Space Marines are plenty sufficient for the Imperium’s needs.

	Space Marines the selves specialize in achieving strategic objectives for the Imperial Guard and Mechanicus forces to capitalize on. Give them a mission and it will be completed. Making sure their success matters is up to everyone else. Each company is often spread across a planetary conflict since each Marine is so powerful that hardly any are needed to achieve a vital objective when supported by Guard forces such as tanks and artillery. Even at the tactical level aiding the Imperial Guard a single Marine will simply move around the skirmish to key points and curbstomp to make the enemy incapable of having any hope of victory. Basically, a Chapter of Space Marines should not be thought of as an army but as a collective of Master Chiefs.		Space Marines the selves specialize in achieving strategic objectives for the Imperial Guard and Mechanicus forces to capitalize on. Give them a mission and it will be completed. Making sure their success matters is up to everyone else. Each company is often spread across a planetary conflict since each Marine is so powerful that hardly any are needed to achieve a vital objective when supported by Guard forces such as tanks and artillery. Even at the tactical level aiding the Imperial Guard a single Marine will simply move around the skirmish to key points and curbstomp to make the enemy incapable of having any hope of victory. Basically, a Chapter of Space Marines should not be thought of as an army but as a collective of Master Chiefs.

217.180.196.69 at 19:03, 5 June 2023

2023-06-05T19:03:11Z

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	{{Topquote\|They shall be my finest warriors, these men who give of themselves to me. Like clay I shall [[Finecast\|mould]] them, and in the furnace of war forge them. They will be of iron will and steely muscle. In great [[Pauldrons\|armour]] shall I clad them and with the [[Bolter\|mightiest guns]] will they be armed. They will be untouched by [[Nurgle\|plague]] or disease, no sickness will blight them. They will have [[Deep Strike\|tactics]], [[Steel Rain\|strategies]] and [[Dreadnought\|mac]][[Centurion Squad\|hin]][[METAL BOXES\|es]] so that no foe can best them in battle. They are my bulwark against [[Chaos\|the Terror]]. They are the Defenders of Humanity. They are my [[Robert Heinlein\|Space Marines]] and they shall know no fear.\|[[Emperor\|The God-Emperor of Mankind]]}}		{{Topquote\|They shall be my finest warriors, these men who give of themselves to me. Like clay I shall [[Finecast\|mould]] them, and in the furnace of war forge them. They will be of iron will and steely muscle. In great [[Pauldrons\|armour]] shall I clad them and with the [[Bolter\|mightiest guns]] will they be armed. They will be untouched by [[Nurgle\|plague]] or disease, no sickness will blight them. They will have [[Deep Strike\|tactics]], [[Steel Rain\|strategies]] and [[Dreadnought\|mac]][[Centurion Squad\|hin]][[METAL BOXES\|es]] so that no foe can best them in battle. They are my bulwark against [[Chaos\|the Terror]]. They are the Defenders of Humanity. They are my [[Robert Heinlein\|Space Marines]] and they shall know no fear.\|[[Emperor\|The God-Emperor of Mankind]]}}

	The '''Space Marines''', also known as '''[[Indrick Boreale\|SPESS MEHREENS]]''' (or '''Marinelets''' or (canonically) '''Firstborn''' now that the [[Primaris Marines\|Chadmarines]] are here) and canonically named the '''Adeptus Astartes''' are an army in the [[Warhammer 40,000]] universe. They are [[Transhumanist\|bio-enhanced]] super soldiers clad in [[Power Armour]], and are generally regarded as the toughest warriors to ever serve the [[Emprah\|Emperor]] (except for the Adeptus Custodes, Imperial Assassins and the now-obsoleted Thunder Warriors). The average Space Marine is around eight feet tall. They used to be seven feet in the old fluff, but [[Dan Abnett]] and the rest of Games Workshop have a hard-on for gigantism (though they have addressed the problems real-life gigantism can cause by throwing in more bio-engineering) so they jacked them up a foot, though RPGs from Fantasy Flight Games and games by THQ scaled them back to the more reasonable seven feet. Although do note that the height of Marines can vary greatly; some can even reach ''ten'' feet, like [[Asterion Moloc]]. "Giant gods of war" is far more believable, considering their insane feats and ability for a handful of them to face down an Ork WAAAGH!!! and Tyranid Hive Fleets, yet still make a major difference. Oversight of the Adeptus are by the Ordo Astartes of the [[Inquisition]].		The '''Space Marines''', also known as '''[[Indrick Boreale\|SPESS MEHREENS]]''' (or '''Marinelets''' or (canonically) '''Firstborn''' now that the [[Primaris Marines\|Chadmarines]] are here) and canonically named the '''Adeptus Astartes''' are an army in the [[Warhammer 40,000]] universe. They are [[Transhumanist\|bio-enhanced]] super soldiers clad in [[Power Armour]], and are generally regarded as the toughest warriors to ever serve the [[Emprah\|Emperor]] (except for the Adeptus Custodes, Imperial Assassins and the now-obsoleted Thunder Warriors). The average Space Marine is around eight feet tall. They used to be seven feet in the old fluff, but [[Dan Abnett]] and the rest of Games Workshop have a hard-on for gigantism (though they have addressed the problems real-life gigantism can cause by throwing in more bio-engineering) so they jacked them up a foot, though RPGs from Fantasy Flight Games and games by THQ scaled them back to the more reasonable seven feet (though some eight foot people do exist in real life). Although do note that the height of Marines can vary greatly; some can even reach ''ten'' feet, like [[Asterion Moloc]]. "Giant gods of war" is far more believable, considering their insane feats and ability for a handful of them to face down an Ork WAAAGH!!! and Tyranid Hive Fleets, yet still make a major difference. Oversight of the Adeptus are by the Ordo Astartes of the [[Inquisition]].

	Internally, they have bones that can repel anything short of a boltgun round and can breathe underwater even without their helmets on because they have a third (artificial/augmetic) lung. They can also breathe all but the most potent of toxic fumes with little to no damage to their respiratory system, have two hearts, and live for hundreds of years (they may be functionally immortal, but they usually die in battle after a few centuries, so nobody can be sure, although a Salamander was found in armor fused to his ship and he was ten thousand years old and alive and aware...and batshit insane for having only his brothers’ corpses to look at for ten millennia and his body had severely atrophied). They are vastly more powerful in their [[fluff\|official descriptions]] than they actually are in the ''Warhammer 40,000'' tabletop game (although the Marines statted in [[Dark Heresy]] or [[Rogue Trader (RPG)]] are walking rapemachines, and the [[player character]] Marines in [[Deathwatch]] are hard as nails). Much like the [[Chaos Space Marines]] are the 40k successors of the [[Warriors of Chaos]], Space Marines are the 40k successors of Warrior Priests, right down to their BALD. Portrayals range from hardcore but plausible super-soldiers to shameless [[Mary Sue]]s who could fight off Batman with one hand and the Joker with the other, considering their fluff feats and the things they defeat, defeating Batman and the Joker while missing all his limbs would be completely unsurprising for an Astartes. Although occasionally, they serve to make other galactic forces seem superior. ''More like the Ineptes Astartes.''		Internally, they have bones that can repel anything short of a boltgun round and can breathe underwater even without their helmets on because they have a third (artificial/augmetic) lung. They can also breathe all but the most potent of toxic fumes with little to no damage to their respiratory system, have two hearts, and live for hundreds of years (they may be functionally immortal, but they usually die in battle after a few centuries, so nobody can be sure, although a Salamander was found in armor fused to his ship and he was ten thousand years old and alive and aware...and batshit insane for having only his brothers’ corpses to look at for ten millennia and his body had severely atrophied). They are vastly more powerful in their [[fluff\|official descriptions]] than they actually are in the ''Warhammer 40,000'' tabletop game (although the Marines statted in [[Dark Heresy]] or [[Rogue Trader (RPG)]] are walking rapemachines, and the [[player character]] Marines in [[Deathwatch]] are hard as nails). Much like the [[Chaos Space Marines]] are the 40k successors of the [[Warriors of Chaos]], Space Marines are the 40k successors of Warrior Priests, right down to their BALD. Portrayals range from hardcore but plausible super-soldiers to shameless [[Mary Sue]]s who could fight off Batman with one hand and the Joker with the other, considering their fluff feats and the things they defeat, defeating Batman and the Joker while missing all his limbs would be completely unsurprising for an Astartes. Although occasionally, they serve to make other galactic forces seem superior. ''More like the Ineptes Astartes.''
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	They account for approximately 35% of the playable armies (counting chaos space marines) in 40k, over 21.4% (yeah, I thought that was a pretty conservative estimate too) of played armies among the 40k fandom (factoring in that people can collect and play more than one 40k army), and as of October 2010, receive about 50% or more of new releases. While there are many, ''many'' chapters that you can choose from, the actual armies basically boil down to seven main choices: [[Ultramarines]], [[Dark Angels]], [[Blood Angels]], [[Space Wolves]], [[Grey Knights]], [[Legion of the Damned]] (barely), [[Deathwatch]], [[Black Templars]] (<s>previously</s> [[Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marines_(9E)#Black_Templars\|NOT ANYMORE!]]) and everybody else (with the [[Chaos Space Marines]] accounting for three more codexes). Everyone who's a successor of the first two choices follows their codex and generally share their units, while the "everybody else" just follows the generic Space Marine codex. Don't let the promotional art fool you, though; the Space Marine army isn't exclusively Ultramarines. It used to be that you also had individual codices the [[Black Templars]], but they got folded into the generic Space Marine army. At least they still get special chapter-specific units, which is more than can be said for the likes of the [[Salamanders]] or other important yet still-neglected chapters. But nooo, the Ultramarines need every type of special character...		They account for approximately 35% of the playable armies (counting chaos space marines) in 40k, over 21.4% (yeah, I thought that was a pretty conservative estimate too) of played armies among the 40k fandom (factoring in that people can collect and play more than one 40k army), and as of October 2010, receive about 50% or more of new releases. While there are many, ''many'' chapters that you can choose from, the actual armies basically boil down to seven main choices: [[Ultramarines]], [[Dark Angels]], [[Blood Angels]], [[Space Wolves]], [[Grey Knights]], [[Legion of the Damned]] (barely), [[Deathwatch]], [[Black Templars]] (<s>previously</s> [[Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marines_(9E)#Black_Templars\|NOT ANYMORE!]]) and everybody else (with the [[Chaos Space Marines]] accounting for three more codexes). Everyone who's a successor of the first two choices follows their codex and generally share their units, while the "everybody else" just follows the generic Space Marine codex. Don't let the promotional art fool you, though; the Space Marine army isn't exclusively Ultramarines. It used to be that you also had individual codices the [[Black Templars]], but they got folded into the generic Space Marine army. At least they still get special chapter-specific units, which is more than can be said for the likes of the [[Salamanders]] or other important yet still-neglected chapters. But nooo, the Ultramarines need every type of special character...

	Contrary to that, [[fluff]]-wise Space Marines are amongst the smallest factions in the game. With Loyalist Marines combined they number just above one million in a galaxy where the Imperium alone has more or less a million honest to God inhabited worlds (deepshit colonies with a population of only a few million may or may not be included in that number). In fact, any single capital-class space ship may have a population higher than the entirety of Marines in the Galaxy. Furthermore, Marine armies are extremely fractured, very rarely deployed at above a company per war zone. GW never cared to explain how forces so small could have such a huge impact on the battlefields, when Orks, Guard, and Tyranids could field their troops in the millions, and Chaos can convert entire populations of planets (which is often tens of billions), though by rubbing two brain-cells together we can imagine a combination of them being just that powerful and focusing on opening opportunities for their Strike Cruiser or Battle Barge to blow everyone up. (While the scale is certainly off, it might be less off than you think. Space marines are more "armor" than "infantry". In WWII, entire campaigns involving millions of soldiers have been decided by battles focused around some hundred tanks). Regardless, everything that is something in the setting has a tendency to at least have a bit Space Marines in it, if they aren't flat-out the protagonists. Expect enormous campaigns to revolve around a few companies, regardless of the involved numbers of Guardsmen and enemy xenos and chaotic characters, and the Marines to be the key to victory in any given war.		Contrary to that, [[fluff]]-wise Space Marines are amongst the smallest factions in the game. With Loyalist Marines combined they number just above one million in a galaxy where the Imperium alone has more or less a million honest to God inhabited worlds (deepshit colonies with a population of only a few million may or may not be included in that number). In fact, any single capital-class space ship may have a population higher than the entirety of Marines in the Galaxy. Furthermore, Marine armies are extremely fractured, very rarely deployed at above a company per war zone. GW never cared to explain how forces so small could have such a huge impact on the battlefields, when Orks, Guard, and Tyranids could field their troops in the millions, and Chaos can convert entire populations of planets (which is often tens of billions), though by rubbing two brain-cells together we can imagine a combination of them being just that powerful and focusing on opening opportunities for their Strike Cruiser or Battle Barge to blow everyone up. (While the scale is certainly off, it might be less off than you think. Space marines are more "armor" than "infantry". In WWII, entire campaigns involving millions of soldiers have been decided by battles focused around some hundred tanks, although this argument ignores that Astartes are infantry and that those battles mattered only due to the hundreds of thousands of other tanks also fighting, fundamentally there are too many important locations on a planet for a hundred or even a thousand maybe hundred thousand Space Marines to matter). Regardless, everything that is something in the setting has a tendency to at least have a bit Space Marines in it, if they aren't flat-out the protagonists. Expect enormous campaigns to revolve around a few companies, regardless of the involved numbers of Guardsmen and enemy xenos and chaotic characters, and the Marines to be the key to victory in any given war.

	The main reason for the small numbers, though, seems to be that [[Games Workshop]] and the [[Black Library]] authors have no sense of scale. For example, the largest battle of the Great Crusade was the battle for what became known as Armageddon. It had a measly eight million soldiers and several hundred thousand Space Marines. To say nothing of Mechanicus forces. Fast forward ten thousand years and most major battles or campaigns of the setting that require Space Marines only have dozens to hundreds of regiments, the average regiment size being ten thousand men in the lore. So, in battles that actually need Astartes there will usually be rough one Marine per one hundred or one thousand Guardsmen depending on how important the battle is. A battle with dozens of regiments often has elements of multiple Chapters involved and easily can have several thousand Marines of various Chapters fighting in the battle. On top of that, it is rare for Astartes to be needed in the first place outside of major invasions of strategically important worlds by particularly advanced alien or daemonic threats. When coupled with the complete lack of any ability to comprehend scale on the writers’ part, the small numbers or Space Marines are plenty sufficient for the Imperium’s needs.		The main reason for the small numbers, though, seems to be that [[Games Workshop]] and the [[Black Library]] authors have no sense of scale. For example, the largest battle of the Great Crusade was the battle for what became known as Armageddon. It had a measly eight million soldiers and several hundred thousand Space Marines. To say nothing of Mechanicus forces. Fast forward ten thousand years and most major battles or campaigns of the setting that require Space Marines only have dozens to hundreds of regiments, the average regiment size being ten thousand men in the lore. So, in battles that actually need Astartes there will usually be rough one Marine per one hundred or one thousand Guardsmen depending on how important the battle is. A battle with dozens of regiments often has elements of multiple Chapters involved and easily can have several thousand Marines of various Chapters fighting in the battle. On top of that, it is rare for Astartes to be needed in the first place outside of major invasions of strategically important worlds by particularly advanced alien or daemonic threats. When coupled with the complete lack of any ability to comprehend scale on the writers’ part, the small numbers or Space Marines are plenty sufficient for the Imperium’s needs.

2A02:1810:4E2C:A900:6131:1E26:C449:F533 at 15:03, 2 June 2023

2023-06-02T15:03:01Z

Show changes

1d4chan>Kirbanzo: /* The Lifespan Debate */ given old men being tough as balls is an anime trope, might as well link

2023-05-05T16:28:02Z

The Lifespan Debate: given old men being tough as balls is an anime trope, might as well link

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:28, 5 May 2023
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	Ultimately, it probably comes down to how well an individual’s genetics accept the progenoid’s changes to their genetic template to accept the other implants and whether or not there are major flaws in the gene-seed.		Ultimately, it probably comes down to how well an individual’s genetics accept the progenoid’s changes to their genetic template to accept the other implants and whether or not there are major flaws in the gene-seed.

	With the return of The Lion, fresh questions have been raised about just how much the Emperor's creations can stand the test of time. Sleeping beauty has shown significant signs of aging after 10,000 years. On the one hand, if even a Primarch starts showing his age then that might seem like bad news for their sons in the immortality department. On the other hand, all signs of this aging seem to only be in his appearance rather than physicality. Indeed, The Lion managed to best demon-Angron in single combat. Maybe it's old man strength?		With the return of The Lion, fresh questions have been raised about just how much the Emperor's creations can stand the test of time. Sleeping beauty has shown significant signs of aging after 10,000 years. On the one hand, if even a Primarch starts showing his age then that might seem like bad news for their sons in the immortality department. On the other hand, all signs of this aging seem to only be in his appearance rather than physicality. Indeed, The Lion managed to best demon-Angron in single combat. [[Anime\|Maybe it's old man strength]]?

	==Space Marine Chapters==		==Space Marine Chapters==

2603:3003:1E00:AC00:C61:1195:5DB9:18EB: /* The Lifespan Debate */

2023-05-05T14:00:58Z

The Lifespan Debate

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:00, 5 May 2023
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	Ultimately, it probably comes down to how well an individual’s genetics accept the progenoid’s changes to their genetic template to accept the other implants and whether or not there are major flaws in the gene-seed.		Ultimately, it probably comes down to how well an individual’s genetics accept the progenoid’s changes to their genetic template to accept the other implants and whether or not there are major flaws in the gene-seed.

			With the return of The Lion, fresh questions have been raised about just how much the Emperor's creations can stand the test of time. Sleeping beauty has shown significant signs of aging after 10,000 years. On the one hand, if even a Primarch starts showing his age then that might seem like bad news for their sons in the immortality department. On the other hand, all signs of this aging seem to only be in his appearance rather than physicality. Indeed, The Lion managed to best demon-Angron in single combat. Maybe it's old man strength?

	==Space Marine Chapters==		==Space Marine Chapters==