Tier System - Revision history

95.167.183.120 at 10:03, 1 July 2025

2025-07-01T10:03:23Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:03, 1 July 2025
Line 23:		Line 23:
	Capable of doing absolutely everything, often better than classes that specialize in that thing. Often capable of solving encounters with a single mechanical ability and little thought from the player. Has world-changing powers at high levels. If played with skill, these guys can easily break a campaign and be very hard to challenge without extreme DM fiat or plenty of house rules, especially if Tier 3s and below are in the party. Capable of winning in situations severe enough to result in [[TPK]] of Tier-3 and lower party; conversely, situation difficult enough to seriously threaten a party of Tier 1's, would result in [[TPK]] of party full of Tier-3's. Can handle enemies of higher than normal CR (especially since rewards are also higher than normal).		Capable of doing absolutely everything, often better than classes that specialize in that thing. Often capable of solving encounters with a single mechanical ability and little thought from the player. Has world-changing powers at high levels. If played with skill, these guys can easily break a campaign and be very hard to challenge without extreme DM fiat or plenty of house rules, especially if Tier 3s and below are in the party. Capable of winning in situations severe enough to result in [[TPK]] of Tier-3 and lower party; conversely, situation difficult enough to seriously threaten a party of Tier 1's, would result in [[TPK]] of party full of Tier-3's. Can handle enemies of higher than normal CR (especially since rewards are also higher than normal).

	:'''Examples:''' {{tt\|Artificer\|Eberron Campaign Setting, p. 29}}, {{tt\|archivist\|Heroes of Horror, p. 82}}, cleric, druid, ''{{tt\|erudite\|Complete Psionic, p. 153}} ([https://web.archive.org/web/20151102164617/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a Spell to Power variant]),'' wizard		:'''Examples:''' {{tt\|Artificer\|Eberron Campaign Setting, p. 29}}, {{tt\|archivist\|Heroes of Horror, p. 82}}, cleric, druid, ''{{tt\|erudite\|Complete Psionic, p. 153}} ([https://web.archive.org/web/20151102164617/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a Spell to Power variant]),'' wizard, {{tt\|powergamed Dragonwrought Kobold Sorcerer\|Races Of The Dragon, plus "for dragons only" things from Draconomicon/Dragon Compendium/Dragon Magic}}
	:'''Pathfinder Examples:''' [[Arcanist]].		:'''Pathfinder Examples:''' [[Arcanist]].

95.167.183.120 at 09:45, 1 July 2025

2025-07-01T09:45:46Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:45, 1 July 2025
Line 89:		Line 89:

	While the idea was well received and the system is known to 3.X optimizers, this system never got all that popular compared to its parent system.		While the idea was well received and the system is known to 3.X optimizers, this system never got all that popular compared to its parent system.

			=== For NPC's ===
			{{Stub}}
			Generally, tier system works normally for NPC's built as if they were player character. That is - assuming NPC acts cleverly and uses everything at their disposal.

			But the NPC's with broken "for [NPC's of certain type] only" abilities, or monsters, things work strangely. PC's CL is his level - so, we compare monster's CL as if it was his level. The big dumb things would be low tiers, and spellcasting things likely as high tiers.

			=== Races/Species ===
			{{Stub}}
			Each Race/Species could have it's own tier. Such as Humans and Half-Elves being quite good. That requires some research. And on top of that, there's Monster Class Adventurers - which require determining, whether or not their abilities do compensate for their large [[Level Adjustment]].

	===Pathfinder Archetypes===		===Pathfinder Archetypes===

95.167.183.120 at 09:38, 1 July 2025

2025-07-01T09:38:54Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:38, 1 July 2025
Line 7:		Line 7:
	The following is copypasta, mostly because the forum threads for this keep burning out over at Gamesologists, but partially so that fa/tg/uys can still look down their noses at the math nerds at Brilliant-Gamesologists-dot-Com. The "Pathfinder examples" and "Third Party examples" sections were not in the original post and have been added for convenience.		The following is copypasta, mostly because the forum threads for this keep burning out over at Gamesologists, but partially so that fa/tg/uys can still look down their noses at the math nerds at Brilliant-Gamesologists-dot-Com. The "Pathfinder examples" and "Third Party examples" sections were not in the original post and have been added for convenience.

	Note that the tier lists measure general ability to get shit done, rather than pure, balls-out combat power. Some martial classes are unstoppable terrors in combat, but once the fight stops, they might as well go crack open a soda, while wizards and skillmonkeys generally continue to contribute all the time. In fact, that's half of tier 4; classes that are super good at one or two things, but suck ass at doing anything else. The list also takes a look at more of the mid-to-late-game potential of classes: an unoptimised druid isn't that much better than an unoptimised barbarian at level 1 (and is arguably worse; barbarians get a lot out of the gate, particularly if using a two-handed weapon), but as they both level up the gap between them widens exponentially. NPC's power and influence also corresponds with higher tier, assuming they act cleverly and use all options at their disposal: Tier 1 [[BBEG]] is a lot more scary and devious than Tier 4 [[BBEG]].		Note that the tier lists measure general ability to get shit done, rather than pure, balls-out combat power. Some martial classes are unstoppable terrors in combat, but once the fight stops, they might as well go crack open a soda, while wizards and skillmonkeys generally continue to contribute all the time. In fact, that's half of tier 4; classes that are super good at one or two things, but suck ass at doing anything else. The list also takes a look at more of the mid-to-late-game potential of classes: an unoptimised druid isn't that much better than an unoptimised barbarian at level 1 (and is arguably worse; barbarians get a lot out of the gate, particularly if using a two-handed weapon), but as they both level up the gap between them widens exponentially. NPC's power and influence also corresponds with higher tier, assuming they act cleverly and use all options at their disposal: Tier 1 [[BBEG]] is a lot more scary and devious than Tier 4 [[BBEG]] of same level.

	* [https://web.archive.org/web/20170318105838/http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5293 Tier System for Classes discussion at Brilliant Gameologists]		* [https://web.archive.org/web/20170318105838/http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5293 Tier System for Classes discussion at Brilliant Gameologists]

95.167.183.120 at 09:38, 1 July 2025

2025-07-01T09:38:22Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:38, 1 July 2025
Line 7:		Line 7:
	The following is copypasta, mostly because the forum threads for this keep burning out over at Gamesologists, but partially so that fa/tg/uys can still look down their noses at the math nerds at Brilliant-Gamesologists-dot-Com. The "Pathfinder examples" and "Third Party examples" sections were not in the original post and have been added for convenience.		The following is copypasta, mostly because the forum threads for this keep burning out over at Gamesologists, but partially so that fa/tg/uys can still look down their noses at the math nerds at Brilliant-Gamesologists-dot-Com. The "Pathfinder examples" and "Third Party examples" sections were not in the original post and have been added for convenience.

	Note that the tier lists measure general ability to get shit done, rather than pure, balls-out combat power. Some martial classes are unstoppable terrors in combat, but once the fight stops, they might as well go crack open a soda, while wizards and skillmonkeys generally continue to contribute all the time. In fact, that's half of tier 4; classes that are super good at one or two things, but suck ass at doing anything else. The list also takes a look at more of the mid-to-late-game potential of classes: an unoptimised druid isn't that much better than an unoptimised barbarian at level 1 (and is arguably worse; barbarians get a lot out of the gate, particularly if using a two-handed weapon), but as they both level up the gap between them widens exponentially.		Note that the tier lists measure general ability to get shit done, rather than pure, balls-out combat power. Some martial classes are unstoppable terrors in combat, but once the fight stops, they might as well go crack open a soda, while wizards and skillmonkeys generally continue to contribute all the time. In fact, that's half of tier 4; classes that are super good at one or two things, but suck ass at doing anything else. The list also takes a look at more of the mid-to-late-game potential of classes: an unoptimised druid isn't that much better than an unoptimised barbarian at level 1 (and is arguably worse; barbarians get a lot out of the gate, particularly if using a two-handed weapon), but as they both level up the gap between them widens exponentially. NPC's power and influence also corresponds with higher tier, assuming they act cleverly and use all options at their disposal: Tier 1 [[BBEG]] is a lot more scary and devious than Tier 4 [[BBEG]].

	* [https://web.archive.org/web/20170318105838/http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5293 Tier System for Classes discussion at Brilliant Gameologists]		* [https://web.archive.org/web/20170318105838/http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5293 Tier System for Classes discussion at Brilliant Gameologists]

95.167.183.120: Page is old. Found new parts. Can sort out later.

2025-07-01T09:34:37Z

Page is old. Found new parts. Can sort out later.

Show changes

imported>Administrator: 97 revisions imported

2023-06-23T15:05:37Z

97 revisions imported

← Older revision	Revision as of 15:05, 23 June 2023
(No difference)

imported>Administrator: 1 revision imported

2023-06-19T14:25:28Z

1 revision imported

← Older revision	Revision as of 14:25, 19 June 2023
(No difference)

1d4chan>Slipmcripfist: clarified

2023-05-28T03:12:52Z

clarified

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:12, 28 May 2023
Line 1:		Line 1:
	The [[Tier System]] is a ranking of the player character classes for OGL d20 system (D&D 3rd, 3.5 and Pathfinder), devised by the [[Munchkin\|mix/maxing nerds]] at [http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?board=9.0 Gamesologists Forums], that compares the relative power and versatility of the different character classes. After burning out the bump limit in the forums a few times over, it became clear that some classes are just useless, and some are [[CoDzilla\|wickedly broken]]. The Tiers aren't about what classes you should '''always''' pick, but rather making sure the player characters in the party are balanced so that nobody feels like a fifth wheel. With a party of a Druid, Wizard, Bard and Monk, you can tell that the Monk player is gonna have much less fun because [[No Girls on the Internet\|she'll]] be overshadowed by the others.		The [[Tier System]] is a ranking of the player character classes for OGL d20 system (D&D 3rd, 3.5 and Pathfinder), devised by the [[Munchkin\|mix/maxing nerds]] at [http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?board=9.0 Gamesologists Forums], that compares the relative power and versatility of the different character classes. After burning out the bump limit in the forums a few times over, it became clear that some classes are just useless, and some are [[CoDzilla\|wickedly broken]]. The Tiers aren't about what classes you should '''always''' pick, but rather making sure the player characters in the party are balanced so that nobody feels like a fifth wheel. With a party of a Druid, Wizard, Bard and Monk, you can tell that the Monk player is gonna have much less fun because [[No Girls on the Internet\|she'll]] be overshadowed by the others.

	Some classes can move up and down, either with variants (already mentioned above, with some serious [[Powergamer\|min/maxing]] and [[munchkin]]ism) or, for Pathfinder, a class option. The original thread says that the "Truenamer" class is pretty broken (as in, not working as intended,) and usually ends up at Tier 6 or worse - unless it's min/maxed out the wazoo to be able to spam its abilities, in which case it rises to Tier 4. Even then, being in the same tier doesn't make two classes equal, just in the same range - the [[hexblade]]'s clearly shittier than the [[ranger]] or [[barbarian]], but it still ekes out a spot in Tier 4, and the [[samurai]]'s better than its NPC class bros just by virtue of having class features, even if they suck. The tier list also assumes that all the players are about the same level of skill and at least sort of know what they're doing; a druid who prepares nothing but heal spells and charges into combat with a scimitar while never wildshaping is a lot worse than a samurai who's minmaxed Intimidate enough to make every enemy within 30 feet shit themselves as a swift action. Tier 3 classes are generally considered the ideal balance point, being versatile and powerful but not so much so they can't be challenged.		Some classes can move up and down, either with variants (already mentioned above, with some serious [[Powergamer\|min/maxing]] and [[munchkin]]ism) or, for Pathfinder, a class option. The original thread says that the "Truenamer" class is pretty broken (as in, not working as intended,) and usually ends up at Tier 6 or worse - unless it's min/maxed out the wazoo to be able to spam its abilities, in which case it rises to Tier 4. Even then, being in the same tier doesn't make two classes equal, just in the same range - the [[hexblade]]'s clearly shittier than the [[ranger]] or [[barbarian]], but it still ekes out a spot in Tier 4, and the [[samurai]]'s better than its NPC class bros just by virtue of having class features, even if they suck. The tier list also assumes that all the players are about the same level of skill and at least sort of know what they're doing; a druid who prepares nothing but heal spells and charges into combat with a scimitar while never wildshaping is a lot worse than a samurai who's minmaxed Intimidate enough to make every enemy within 30 feet shit themselves as a swift action. Tier 3 classes are generally considered the ideal balance point, being versatile and powerful but not so much so they can't be challenged.

	Since WotC very rarely supported non-core classes beyond their initial book, and core classes had fundamental flaws or their most broken abilities were core, what books are usable doesn't really matter much for 3.x tiers. Bard is the main exception, as core only bards are pretty lame but they have a huge amount of unique splat support. Pathfinder is different here because it actually supported its non-core classes, and many classes used talents selected from a list every few levels which are well suited for expansion in splat. This still rarely matters, but it means certain retardedly broken options pop up from time to time. This generally works out to "take this and you're tier 2" and more archetypes that fundamentally change the class being in a different tier (though 3.5 had some as well, such as the Wildshape Ranger), but Vigilante is dependent upon talents released after ''Ultimate Intrigue'' to hit tier 3 without taking a casting based archetype and Medium is terrible without the support it got past ''Occult Adventures''.		Since WotC very rarely supported non-core classes beyond their initial book, and core classes had fundamental flaws or their most broken abilities were core, what books are usable doesn't really matter much for 3.x tiers. Bard is the main exception, as core only bards are pretty lame but they have a huge amount of unique splat support. Pathfinder is different here because it actually supported its non-core classes, and many classes used talents selected from a list every few levels which are well suited for expansion in splat. This still rarely matters, but it means certain retardedly broken options pop up from time to time. This generally works out to "take this and you're tier 2" and more archetypes that fundamentally change the class being in a different tier (though 3.5 had some as well, such as the Wildshape Ranger), but Vigilante is dependent upon talents released after ''Ultimate Intrigue'' to hit tier 3 without taking a casting based archetype and Medium is terrible without the support it got past ''Occult Adventures''.

	The following is copypasta, mostly because the forum threads for this keep burning out over at Gamesologists, but partially so that fa/tg/uys can still look down their noses at the math nerds at Brilliant-Gamesologists-dot-Com. "Pathfinder examples" and "~~TPP~~ examples" sections were not in the original post and have been added for convenience.		The following is copypasta, mostly because the forum threads for this keep burning out over at Gamesologists, but partially so that fa/tg/uys can still look down their noses at the math nerds at Brilliant-Gamesologists-dot-Com. The "Pathfinder examples" and "Third Party examples" sections were not in the original post and have been added for convenience.

	Note that the tier lists measure general ability to get shit done, rather than pure, balls-out combat power. Some martial classes are unstoppable terrors in combat, but once the fight stops, they might as well go crack open a soda, while wizards and skillmonkeys generally continue to contribute all the time. In fact, that's half of tier 4; classes that are super good at one or two things, but suck ass at doing anything else. The list also takes a look at more of the mid-to-late-game potential of classes: an unoptimised druid isn't that much better than an unoptimised barbarian at level 1 (and is arguably worse; barbarians get a lot out of the gate, particularly if using a two-handed weapon), but as they both level up the gap between them widens exponentially.		Note that the tier lists measure general ability to get shit done, rather than pure, balls-out combat power. Some martial classes are unstoppable terrors in combat, but once the fight stops, they might as well go crack open a soda, while wizards and skillmonkeys generally continue to contribute all the time. In fact, that's half of tier 4; classes that are super good at one or two things, but suck ass at doing anything else. The list also takes a look at more of the mid-to-late-game potential of classes: an unoptimised druid isn't that much better than an unoptimised barbarian at level 1 (and is arguably worse; barbarians get a lot out of the gate, particularly if using a two-handed weapon), but as they both level up the gap between them widens exponentially.

	* [https://web.archive.org/web/20170318105838/http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5293 Tier System for Classes discussion at Brilliant Gameologists]		* [https://web.archive.org/web/20170318105838/http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5293 Tier System for Classes discussion at Brilliant Gameologists]
Line 25:		Line 25:

	== Tier 2 ==		== Tier 2 ==
	Has as much raw power as the Tier 1 classes, but can't pull off nearly as many tricks, and while the class itself is capable of anything, no one build can actually do nearly as much as the Tier 1 classes. Still potentially campaign smashers by using the right abilities, but at the same time are more predictable and can't always have the right tool for the job. If the Tier 1 classes are countries with 10,000 nuclear weapons in their arsenal, these guys are countries with 10 nukes. Still dangerous and easily world shattering, but not in quite so many ways. Note that the Tier 2 classes are often less flexible than Tier 3 classes... it's just that their incredible potential power overwhelms their lack in flexibility.		Has as much raw power as the Tier 1 classes, but can't pull off nearly as many tricks, and while the class itself is capable of anything, no one build can actually do nearly as much as the Tier 1 classes. Still potentially campaign smashers by using the right abilities, but at the same time are more predictable and can't always have the right tool for the job. If the Tier 1 classes are countries with 10,000 nuclear weapons in their arsenal, these guys are countries with 10 nukes. Still dangerous and easily world shattering, but not in quite so many ways. Note that the Tier 2 classes are often less flexible than Tier 3 classes... it's just that their incredible potential power overwhelms their lack in flexibility.

	:'''Examples:''' {{tt\|Binder\|Tome of Magic, p. 9}} ([https://web.archive.org/web/20211001135258/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd%2Ffrcc%2F20070718 Zceryll, "The Star Spawn" vestige]), ''{{tt\|erudite\|Complete Psionic, p. 153}},'' {{tt\|favored soul\|Complete Divine, p. 6}}, ''{{tt\|psion\|Expanded Psionics Handbook, p. 19}},'' sorcerer		:'''Examples:''' {{tt\|Binder\|Tome of Magic, p. 9}} ([https://web.archive.org/web/20211001135258/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd%2Ffrcc%2F20070718 Zceryll, "The Star Spawn" vestige]), ''{{tt\|erudite\|Complete Psionic, p. 153}},'' {{tt\|favored soul\|Complete Divine, p. 6}}, ''{{tt\|psion\|Expanded Psionics Handbook, p. 19}},'' sorcerer
Line 31:		Line 31:

	==Tier 3==		==Tier 3==
	Capable of doing one thing quite well, while still being useful when that one thing is inappropriate, or capable of doing all things, but not as well as classes ~~that specialize~~ in that area. Occasionally has a mechanical ability ~~that can~~ solve an encounter, but this is relatively rare and easy to deal with. ~~Can~~ be game breaking only with specific intent to do so. Challenging such a character takes some thought from the DM, but isn't too difficult. Will outshine any Tier 5s in the party much of the time.		Capable of doing one thing quite well, while still being useful when that one thing is inappropriate, or capable of doing all things, but not as well as classes specializing in that area. Occasionally has a mechanical ability to solve an encounter, but this is relatively rare and easy to deal with. They can be game-breaking only with specific intent to do so. Challenging such a character takes some thought from the DM, but isn't too difficult. Will outshine any Tier 5s in the party much of the time.

	:'''Examples:''' Bard, {{tt\|beguiler\|Player's Handbook II, p. 6}}, {{tt\|binder\|Tome of Magic, p. 9}}, {{tt\|crusader\|Tome of Battle, p. 8}}, {{tt\|dread necromancer\|Heroes of Horror, p. 84}}, {{tt\|duskblade\|Player's Handbook II, p. 19}}<sup>{{tt\|−\|Could easily be considered tier 4}}</sup>, {{tt\|factotum\|Dungeonscape, p. 17}}, ''{{tt\|psychic warrior\|Expanded Psionics Handbook, p. 24}},'' ranger ({{tt\|wild shape variant\|Unearthed Arcana, p. 58}}), {{tt\|swordsage\|Tome of Battle, p. 15}}, {{tt\|warblade\|Tome of Battle, p. 20}}		:'''Examples:''' Bard, {{tt\|beguiler\|Player's Handbook II, p. 6}}, {{tt\|binder\|Tome of Magic, p. 9}}, {{tt\|crusader\|Tome of Battle, p. 8}}, {{tt\|dread necromancer\|Heroes of Horror, p. 84}}, {{tt\|duskblade\|Player's Handbook II, p. 19}}<sup>{{tt\|−\|Could easily be considered tier 4}}</sup>, {{tt\|factotum\|Dungeonscape, p. 17}}, ''{{tt\|psychic warrior\|Expanded Psionics Handbook, p. 24}},'' ranger ({{tt\|wild shape variant\|Unearthed Arcana, p. 58}}), {{tt\|swordsage\|Tome of Battle, p. 15}}, {{tt\|warblade\|Tome of Battle, p. 20}}
	:'''Pathfinder Examples:''' [[Alchemist (Pathfinder)\|Alchemist]]<sup>{{tt\|++\|Simulacrum discoveries can make them tier 1}}</sup>,[[Bloodrager]]<sup>{{tt\|−\|Could easily be considered tier 4}}</sup> [[Investigator]], [[Inquisitor (Pathfinder)\|Inquisitor]], [[Magus]], [[Skald]], [[Spiritualist]], Unchained [[Summoner]], [[Warpriest]], [[Vigilante (Pathfinder)\|Vigilante]] (Spellcasting archetype), Sacred Servant [[Paladin]] <sup>{{tt\|+\|Tier 2 with certain domains or Planar Ally picks}}</sup>, Eldritch Scoundrel Rogue, certain [[Monk]] archetype combinations.		:'''Pathfinder Examples:''' [[Alchemist (Pathfinder)\|Alchemist]]<sup>{{tt\|++\|Simulacrum discoveries can make them tier 1}}</sup>,[[Bloodrager]]<sup>{{tt\|−\|Could easily be considered tier 4}}</sup> [[Investigator]], [[Inquisitor (Pathfinder)\|Inquisitor]], [[Magus]], [[Skald]], [[Spiritualist]], Unchained [[Summoner]], [[Warpriest]], [[Vigilante (Pathfinder)\|Vigilante]] (Spellcasting archetype), Sacred Servant [[Paladin]] <sup>{{tt\|+\|Tier 2 with certain domains or Planar Ally picks}}</sup>, Eldritch Scoundrel Rogue, certain [[Monk]] archetype combinations.
	:'''~~TPP~~ Examples:''' All ''[[Book of Nine Swords\|Path of War]]'' classes, Tactician <sup>{{tt\|+\|Picking the right powers with Expanded Knowledge can make them tier 2}}</sup>, [[Vitalist]]<sup>{{tt\|+\|Picking the right powers with Expanded Knowledge can make them tier 2}}</sup>, Aeigis, Soulknife (Augmented Blade or War Soul archetype), most ''Spheres of Power'' classes, [[Binder\|Occultist]]. (In short, most ~~TPP~~ class worth using were built to fall into this tier.)		:'''Third Party Examples:''' All ''[[Book of Nine Swords\|Path of War]]'' classes, Tactician <sup>{{tt\|+\|Picking the right powers with Expanded Knowledge can make them tier 2}}</sup>, [[Vitalist]]<sup>{{tt\|+\|Picking the right powers with Expanded Knowledge can make them tier 2}}</sup>, Aeigis, Soulknife (Augmented Blade or War Soul archetype), most ''Spheres of Power'' classes, [[Binder\|Occultist]]. (In short, most Third Party class worth using were built to fall into this tier.)

	==Tier 4==		==Tier 4==
Line 41:		Line 41:

	:'''Examples:''' Adept, barbarian, fighter ([https://web.archive.org/web/20150401184859/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a Zhentarim soldier substitution levels] (pgs. 6-7), {{tt\|hexblade\|Complete Warrior, p. 5}}<sup>{{tt\|−\|Could easily be considered tier 5}}</sup>, {{tt\|marshal\|Miniatures Handbook, p. 11}}, ranger, rogue, {{tt\|scout\|Complete Adventurer, p. 10}}, {{tt\|spellthief\|Complete Adventurer, p. 13}}, {{tt\|warlock\|Complete Arcane, p. 5}}, {{tt\|warmage\|Complete Arcane, p. 10}}		:'''Examples:''' Adept, barbarian, fighter ([https://web.archive.org/web/20150401184859/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a Zhentarim soldier substitution levels] (pgs. 6-7), {{tt\|hexblade\|Complete Warrior, p. 5}}<sup>{{tt\|−\|Could easily be considered tier 5}}</sup>, {{tt\|marshal\|Miniatures Handbook, p. 11}}, ranger, rogue, {{tt\|scout\|Complete Adventurer, p. 10}}, {{tt\|spellthief\|Complete Adventurer, p. 13}}, {{tt\|warlock\|Complete Arcane, p. 5}}, {{tt\|warmage\|Complete Arcane, p. 10}}
	:'''Pathfinder Examples:''' , small sized [[Knight\|Cavalier]], [[Paladin]], [[Kineticist]] <sup>{{tt\|+/-\|Aether can be tier 3, Wood/Void can be tier 5 as can any element hosed by the campaign's monster choice}}</sup>, [[Medium]] <sup>{{tt\|+/-\|Depending on the archetype & spirit}}</sup>, Unchained [[Monk]], certain Monk archetypes, [[Shifter (Pathfinder)\|Shifter]] <sup>{{tt\|-\|Could easily be considered tier 5}}</sup>, [[Slayer#Pathfinder\|Slayer]], [[Vigilante (Pathfinder)\|Vigilante]] <sup>{{tt\|+\|Could easily be considered tier 3}}</sup>.		:'''Pathfinder Examples:''' , small sized [[Knight\|Cavalier]], [[Paladin]], [[Kineticist]] <sup>{{tt\|+/-\|Aether can be tier 3, Wood/Void can be tier 5 as can any element hosed by the campaign's monster choice}}</sup>, [[Medium]] <sup>{{tt\|+/-\|Depending on the archetype & spirit}}</sup>, Unchained [[Monk]], certain Monk archetypes, [[Shifter (Pathfinder)\|Shifter]] <sup>{{tt\|-\|Could easily be considered tier 5}}</sup>, [[Slayer#Pathfinder\|Slayer]], [[Vigilante (Pathfinder)\|Vigilante]] <sup>{{tt\|+\|Could easily be considered tier 3}}</sup>.
	:'''~~TPP~~ Examples:''' Soulknife (''Psionics Unleashed'').		:'''Third Party Examples:''' Soulknife (''Psionics Unleashed'').

	==Tier 5==		==Tier 5==
Line 57:		Line 57:
	==[[Truenamer]]==		==[[Truenamer]]==

	[[Fail\|A class so terrible it gets its own tier]], the {{tt\|Truenamer\|Tome of Magic, p. 198}} "is [[Pyrovore\|just broken]] (as in, the class was improperly made and doesn't function appropriately). Highly optimized (to the point of being able to spam their abilities) a Truenamer would be around Tier 4, but with lower optimization it rapidly drops to Tier 6." They can however be optimized to do some very specific things that no other class can, with god killing mastery of cosmic power, while still being trumped by a couple of enthusiastic bandits.		[[Fail\|A class so terrible it gets its own tier]], the {{tt\|Truenamer\|Tome of Magic, p. 198}} "is [[Pyrovore\|just broken]] (as in, the class was improperly made and doesn't function appropriately). Highly optimized (to the point of being able to spam their abilities) a Truenamer would be around Tier 4, but with lower optimization it rapidly drops to Tier 6." They can however be optimized to do some very specific things that no other class can, with god killing mastery of cosmic power, while still being trumped by a couple of enthusiastic bandits.

	==Tier 0==		==Tier 0==

1d4chan>Slipmcripfist: typo

2023-01-18T04:54:06Z

typo

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:54, 18 January 2023
Line 40:		Line 40:
	Capable of doing one thing quite well, but often useless when encounters require other areas of expertise, or capable of doing many things to a reasonable degree of competence without truly shining. Rarely has any abilities that can outright handle an encounter unless that encounter plays directly to the class's main strength. DMs may sometimes need to work to make sure Tier 4s can contribute to an encounter, as their abilities may sometimes leave them useless. Won't outshine anyone except Tier 6s except in specific circumstances that play to their strengths. Cannot compete effectively with Tier 1s that are played well.		Capable of doing one thing quite well, but often useless when encounters require other areas of expertise, or capable of doing many things to a reasonable degree of competence without truly shining. Rarely has any abilities that can outright handle an encounter unless that encounter plays directly to the class's main strength. DMs may sometimes need to work to make sure Tier 4s can contribute to an encounter, as their abilities may sometimes leave them useless. Won't outshine anyone except Tier 6s except in specific circumstances that play to their strengths. Cannot compete effectively with Tier 1s that are played well.

	:'''Examples:''' Adept, barbarian, fighter ([http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a Zhentarim soldier substitution levels] (pgs. 6-7), {{tt\|hexblade\|Complete Warrior, p. 5}}<sup>{{tt\|−\|Could easily be considered tier 5}}</sup>, {{tt\|marshal\|Miniatures Handbook, p. 11}}, ranger, rogue, {{tt\|scout\|Complete Adventurer, p. 10}}, {{tt\|spellthief\|Complete Adventurer, p. 13}}, {{tt\|warlock\|Complete Arcane, p. 5}}, {{tt\|warmage\|Complete Arcane, p. 10}}		:'''Examples:''' Adept, barbarian, fighter ([https://web.archive.org/web/20150401184859/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a Zhentarim soldier substitution levels] (pgs. 6-7), {{tt\|hexblade\|Complete Warrior, p. 5}}<sup>{{tt\|−\|Could easily be considered tier 5}}</sup>, {{tt\|marshal\|Miniatures Handbook, p. 11}}, ranger, rogue, {{tt\|scout\|Complete Adventurer, p. 10}}, {{tt\|spellthief\|Complete Adventurer, p. 13}}, {{tt\|warlock\|Complete Arcane, p. 5}}, {{tt\|warmage\|Complete Arcane, p. 10}}
	:'''Pathfinder Examples:''' , small sized [[Knight\|Cavalier]], [[Paladin]], [[Kineticist]] <sup>{{tt\|+/-\|Aether can be tier 3, Wood/Void can be tier 5 as can any element hosed by the campaign's monster choice}}</sup>, [[Medium]] <sup>{{tt\|+/-\|Depending on the archetype & spirit}}</sup>, Unchained [[Monk]], certain Monk archetypes, [[Shifter (Pathfinder)\|Shifter]] <sup>{{tt\|-\|Could easily be considered tier 5}}</sup>, [[Slayer#Pathfinder\|Slayer]], [[Vigilante (Pathfinder)\|Vigilante]] <sup>{{tt\|+\|Could easily be considered tier 3}}</sup>.		:'''Pathfinder Examples:''' , small sized [[Knight\|Cavalier]], [[Paladin]], [[Kineticist]] <sup>{{tt\|+/-\|Aether can be tier 3, Wood/Void can be tier 5 as can any element hosed by the campaign's monster choice}}</sup>, [[Medium]] <sup>{{tt\|+/-\|Depending on the archetype & spirit}}</sup>, Unchained [[Monk]], certain Monk archetypes, [[Shifter (Pathfinder)\|Shifter]] <sup>{{tt\|-\|Could easily be considered tier 5}}</sup>, [[Slayer#Pathfinder\|Slayer]], [[Vigilante (Pathfinder)\|Vigilante]] <sup>{{tt\|+\|Could easily be considered tier 3}}</sup>.
	:'''TPP Examples:''' Soulknife (''Psionics Unleashed'').		:'''TPP Examples:''' Soulknife (''Psionics Unleashed'').
Line 80:		Line 80:

	==d20 Modern==		==d20 Modern==
	[[d20 Modern]] is almost as imbalanced as its parent game. However its class system works differently enough to make the ~~normal~~ normal tier system unusable. Instead each advanced class is put into three tiers, ranking both its combat prowess and versatility as the gaps between class quality are very significant, and that the design assumption not every game in the system includes the supernatural/superscience means few non-casting classes even have enhanced versatility in the first place. Tier 1 holds the casters, [[Psionics\|manifesters]] and pseudo casters, as well as a couple of combat monsters, tier 3 holds the absolute garbage (Like Techie, who builds slightly better items anyone can make, or Road Warrior, a driving focused class that's not even that good at driving and has no other abilities) and tier 2 holds pretty much everything else.		[[d20 Modern]] is almost as imbalanced as its parent game. However, its class system works differently enough to make the normal tier system unusable. Instead, each advanced class is put into three tiers, ranking both its combat prowess and versatility as the gaps between class quality are very significant, and that the design assumption not every game in the system includes the supernatural/superscience means few non-casting classes even have enhanced versatility in the first place. Tier 1 holds the casters, [[Psionics\|manifesters]] and pseudo casters, as well as a couple of combat monsters, tier 3 holds the absolute garbage (Like Techie, who builds slightly better items anyone can make, or Road Warrior, a driving focused class that's not even that good at driving and has no other abilities) and tier 2 holds pretty much everything else.

	[[Category:Dungeons & Dragons]]		[[Category:Dungeons & Dragons]]
	[[Category:Gamer Slang]]		[[Category:Gamer Slang]]

1d4chan>Slipmcripfist: added archived links

2023-01-18T03:04:12Z

added archived links

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:04, 18 January 2023
Line 21:		Line 21:
	Capable of doing absolutely everything, often better than classes that specialize in that thing. Often capable of solving encounters with a single mechanical ability and little thought from the player. Has world-changing powers at high levels. If played with skill, these guys can easily break a campaign and be very hard to challenge without extreme DM fiat or plenty of house rules, especially if Tier 3s and below are in the party.		Capable of doing absolutely everything, often better than classes that specialize in that thing. Often capable of solving encounters with a single mechanical ability and little thought from the player. Has world-changing powers at high levels. If played with skill, these guys can easily break a campaign and be very hard to challenge without extreme DM fiat or plenty of house rules, especially if Tier 3s and below are in the party.

	:'''Examples:''' {{tt\|Artificer\|Eberron Campaign Setting, p. 29}}, {{tt\|archivist\|Heroes of Horror, p. 82}}, cleric, druid, ''{{tt\|erudite\|Complete Psionic, p. 153}} ([http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a Spell to Power variant]),'' wizard		:'''Examples:''' {{tt\|Artificer\|Eberron Campaign Setting, p. 29}}, {{tt\|archivist\|Heroes of Horror, p. 82}}, cleric, druid, ''{{tt\|erudite\|Complete Psionic, p. 153}} ([https://web.archive.org/web/20151102164617/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a Spell to Power variant]),'' wizard
	:'''Pathfinder Examples:''' [[Arcanist]].		:'''Pathfinder Examples:''' [[Arcanist]].

Line 27:		Line 27:
	Has as much raw power as the Tier 1 classes, but can't pull off nearly as many tricks, and while the class itself is capable of anything, no one build can actually do nearly as much as the Tier 1 classes. Still potentially campaign smashers by using the right abilities, but at the same time are more predictable and can't always have the right tool for the job. If the Tier 1 classes are countries with 10,000 nuclear weapons in their arsenal, these guys are countries with 10 nukes. Still dangerous and easily world shattering, but not in quite so many ways. Note that the Tier 2 classes are often less flexible than Tier 3 classes... it's just that their incredible potential power overwhelms their lack in flexibility.		Has as much raw power as the Tier 1 classes, but can't pull off nearly as many tricks, and while the class itself is capable of anything, no one build can actually do nearly as much as the Tier 1 classes. Still potentially campaign smashers by using the right abilities, but at the same time are more predictable and can't always have the right tool for the job. If the Tier 1 classes are countries with 10,000 nuclear weapons in their arsenal, these guys are countries with 10 nukes. Still dangerous and easily world shattering, but not in quite so many ways. Note that the Tier 2 classes are often less flexible than Tier 3 classes... it's just that their incredible potential power overwhelms their lack in flexibility.

	:'''Examples:''' {{tt\|Binder\|Tome of Magic, p. 9}} ([http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd~~/frcc/20070718~~ Zceryll, "The Star Spawn" vestige]), ''{{tt\|erudite\|Complete Psionic, p. 153}},'' {{tt\|favored soul\|Complete Divine, p. 6}}, ''{{tt\|psion\|Expanded Psionics Handbook, p. 19}},'' sorcerer		:'''Examples:''' {{tt\|Binder\|Tome of Magic, p. 9}} ([https://web.archive.org/web/20211001135258/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd%2Ffrcc%2F20070718 Zceryll, "The Star Spawn" vestige]), ''{{tt\|erudite\|Complete Psionic, p. 153}},'' {{tt\|favored soul\|Complete Divine, p. 6}}, ''{{tt\|psion\|Expanded Psionics Handbook, p. 19}},'' sorcerer
	:'''Pathfinder Examples:''' [[Oracle]], [[Summoner]], [[Shaman]], [[Witch]].		:'''Pathfinder Examples:''' [[Oracle]], [[Summoner]], [[Shaman]], [[Witch]].

Line 40:		Line 40:
	Capable of doing one thing quite well, but often useless when encounters require other areas of expertise, or capable of doing many things to a reasonable degree of competence without truly shining. Rarely has any abilities that can outright handle an encounter unless that encounter plays directly to the class's main strength. DMs may sometimes need to work to make sure Tier 4s can contribute to an encounter, as their abilities may sometimes leave them useless. Won't outshine anyone except Tier 6s except in specific circumstances that play to their strengths. Cannot compete effectively with Tier 1s that are played well.		Capable of doing one thing quite well, but often useless when encounters require other areas of expertise, or capable of doing many things to a reasonable degree of competence without truly shining. Rarely has any abilities that can outright handle an encounter unless that encounter plays directly to the class's main strength. DMs may sometimes need to work to make sure Tier 4s can contribute to an encounter, as their abilities may sometimes leave them useless. Won't outshine anyone except Tier 6s except in specific circumstances that play to their strengths. Cannot compete effectively with Tier 1s that are played well.

	:'''Examples:''' Adept, barbarian, fighter ([http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a Zhentarim soldier substitution levels]), {{tt\|hexblade\|Complete Warrior, p. 5}}<sup>{{tt\|−\|Could easily be considered tier 5}}</sup>, {{tt\|marshal\|Miniatures Handbook, p. 11}}, ranger, rogue, {{tt\|scout\|Complete Adventurer, p. 10}}, {{tt\|spellthief\|Complete Adventurer, p. 13}}, {{tt\|warlock\|Complete Arcane, p. 5}}, {{tt\|warmage\|Complete Arcane, p. 10}}		:'''Examples:''' Adept, barbarian, fighter ([http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a Zhentarim soldier substitution levels] (pgs. 6-7), {{tt\|hexblade\|Complete Warrior, p. 5}}<sup>{{tt\|−\|Could easily be considered tier 5}}</sup>, {{tt\|marshal\|Miniatures Handbook, p. 11}}, ranger, rogue, {{tt\|scout\|Complete Adventurer, p. 10}}, {{tt\|spellthief\|Complete Adventurer, p. 13}}, {{tt\|warlock\|Complete Arcane, p. 5}}, {{tt\|warmage\|Complete Arcane, p. 10}}
	:'''Pathfinder Examples:''' , small sized [[Knight\|Cavalier]], [[Paladin]], [[Kineticist]] <sup>{{tt\|+/-\|Aether can be tier 3, Wood/Void can be tier 5 as can any element hosed by the campaign's monster choice}}</sup>, [[Medium]] <sup>{{tt\|+/-\|Depending on the archetype & spirit}}</sup>, Unchained [[Monk]], certain Monk archetypes, [[Shifter (Pathfinder)\|Shifter]] <sup>{{tt\|-\|Could easily be considered tier 5}}</sup>, [[Slayer#Pathfinder\|Slayer]], [[Vigilante (Pathfinder)\|Vigilante]] <sup>{{tt\|+\|Could easily be considered tier 3}}</sup>.		:'''Pathfinder Examples:''' , small sized [[Knight\|Cavalier]], [[Paladin]], [[Kineticist]] <sup>{{tt\|+/-\|Aether can be tier 3, Wood/Void can be tier 5 as can any element hosed by the campaign's monster choice}}</sup>, [[Medium]] <sup>{{tt\|+/-\|Depending on the archetype & spirit}}</sup>, Unchained [[Monk]], certain Monk archetypes, [[Shifter (Pathfinder)\|Shifter]] <sup>{{tt\|-\|Could easily be considered tier 5}}</sup>, [[Slayer#Pathfinder\|Slayer]], [[Vigilante (Pathfinder)\|Vigilante]] <sup>{{tt\|+\|Could easily be considered tier 3}}</sup>.
	:'''TPP Examples:''' Soulknife (''Psionics Unleashed'').		:'''TPP Examples:''' Soulknife (''Psionics Unleashed'').