Traitor Legion Loyalists - Revision history

imported>Administrator: 570 revisions imported

2023-06-23T15:29:19Z

570 revisions imported

← Older revision	Revision as of 15:29, 23 June 2023
(No difference)

imported>Administrator: 1 revision imported

2023-06-19T14:30:38Z

1 revision imported

← Older revision	Revision as of 14:30, 19 June 2023
(No difference)

89.114.75.217 at 11:11, 9 June 2023

2023-06-09T11:11:43Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:11, 9 June 2023
Line 167:		Line 167:
	*'''[[Grey Knights]]''' (Founders were initially drawn from the [[Knights-Errant]]) - Outright stated, although only from their history. While several Astartes from Traitor Legions were among the founders of the Grey Knights, the Grey Knights believe their gene-seed is derived from the prime template of the Emperor, though whether that's true is a point of contention among the fanbase (despite it being repeatedly and clearly stated in any and all Grey Knight's fluff, it's still unclear just HOW Big E made it).		*'''[[Grey Knights]]''' (Founders were initially drawn from the [[Knights-Errant]]) - Outright stated, although only from their history. While several Astartes from Traitor Legions were among the founders of the Grey Knights, the Grey Knights believe their gene-seed is derived from the prime template of the Emperor, though whether that's true is a point of contention among the fanbase (despite it being repeatedly and clearly stated in any and all Grey Knight's fluff, it's still unclear just HOW Big E made it).
	*'''[[Exorcists]]''' (Official Imperial Fist successors. Classified and speculated Successors of the [[Grey Knights]] in old lore...alternatively [[Word Bearers]]) - The link to the Grey Knights is iffy since only due to a small mention by an Inquisitor, and the Grey Knights are notoriously against ANYONE messing with their gene-seed. However, the Exorcists colors, scripture written on their armour, and nature as anti-[[demon]] specialists is almost 1 to 1 with Heresy-era [[Word Bearers]]. It is not completely impossible since they are from the [[13th Founding\|Dark Founding]].		*'''[[Exorcists]]''' (Official Imperial Fist successors. Classified and speculated Successors of the [[Grey Knights]] in old lore...alternatively [[Word Bearers]]) - The link to the Grey Knights is iffy since only due to a small mention by an Inquisitor, and the Grey Knights are notoriously against ANYONE messing with their gene-seed. However, the Exorcists colors, scripture written on their armour, and nature as anti-[[demon]] specialists is almost 1 to 1 with Heresy-era [[Word Bearers]]. It is not completely impossible since they are from the [[13th Founding\|Dark Founding]].
	*'''[[Carcharodons]]''' (Traitor [[Raven Guard]]) - ~~All but Confirmed~~. Physical traits (black eyes, pale skin) similar to both Raven Guard and Night Lords. ~~However, a~~ gene scan of a dead Carcharadon revealed markers for Raven Guard. They also suffer a Battle Rage they called "The Blindness" which manifests exactly like the Raven Guard's "Ash Blindness". They often have a black and white morality, focus on shock and fear tactics combined with stealth, and their preferred tactic is to brutally and horrifically annihilate the target population (be they enemy or civilian), but leave a few survivors to go tell everyone else about what happened. Likewise, a Night Lord officer noted that the Carcharodons seems to be a mirror of their own legion, which the original XIXth legion were known to have been. These further indicate they are both of the XIXth Legion, specifically the Terran born XIXth Legion under the command of their original legion commander: Shade Lord "Arkhas Fal", as the Carcharodons share the title for their leader: "Shade Lord". Notably, the Ashen Claws (a nominally loyalist renegade warband form of a different group of Terran-born XIXth Legion who had been exiled by Corax before the Heresy) have flatly called the Carcharodons "traitor-born", as it was most likely Arkhas Fal's Predation Fleet that joined Horus's side in the war. At the very least, it was likely the Carcharadons are who joined Horus, as he gave them the name "Pale Nomads", a title now used by the chief librarian of the Carcharadons. ~~And after Horus's defeat~~, they ~~swam off to the Outer Dark until the heat~~ could ~~die down~~.		*'''[[Carcharodons]]''' (Traitor [[Raven Guard]]/[[Night Lords]]/[[World Eaters]]) - Speculated. Physical traits (black eyes, pale skin) similar to both Raven Guard and Night Lords. A gene scan of a dead Carcharadon revealed markers for Raven Guard. They also suffer a Battle Rage they called "The Blindness" which manifests exactly like the Raven Guard's "Ash Blindness". They often have a black and white morality, focus on shock and fear tactics combined with stealth, and their preferred tactic is to brutally and horrifically annihilate the target population (be they enemy or civilian), but leave a few survivors to go tell everyone else about what happened. Likewise, a Night Lord officer noted that the Carcharodons seems to be a mirror of their own legion, which the original XIXth legion were known to have been. These further indicate they are both of the XIXth Legion, specifically the Terran born XIXth Legion under the command of their original legion commander: Shade Lord "Arkhas Fal", as the Carcharodons share the title for their leader: "Shade Lord". Notably, the Ashen Claws (a nominally loyalist renegade warband form of a different group of Terran-born XIXth Legion who had been exiled by Corax before the Heresy) have flatly called the Carcharodons "traitor-born", as it was most likely Arkhas Fal's Predation Fleet that joined Horus's side in the war. At the very least, it was likely the Carcharadons are who joined Horus, as he gave them the name "Pale Nomads", a title now used by the chief librarian of the Carcharadons. Of course, there’s also the possibility that they could have a chimera geneseed…which may not have been chimeric originally.
	*'''[[Ashen Claws]]''' (Night Lords/Renegade Raven Guard) - Note: While technically not an officially listed chapter, they have recently begun to fight for the Imperium again. Similar to the Carcharadons, they were founded by an exiled predation fleet of the Raven Guard. This time, the fleet lead by Shade Captain Nerat Kirine, the fleet exiled after the Battle of Gate-42. During the heresy, the fleet returned and declared they fought for neither Horus nor the Emperor. Instead they fought for themselves. They raided the Nostromo Sector, looting war gear as well as stealing the geneseed from the Night Lords they slew.		*'''[[Ashen Claws]]''' (Night Lords/Renegade Raven Guard) - Note: While technically not an officially listed chapter, they have recently begun to fight for the Imperium again. Similar to the Carcharadons, they were founded by an exiled predation fleet of the Raven Guard. This time, the fleet lead by Shade Captain Nerat Kirine, the fleet exiled after the Battle of Gate-42. During the heresy, the fleet returned and declared they fought for neither Horus nor the Emperor. Instead they fought for themselves. They raided the Nostromo Sector, looting war gear as well as stealing the geneseed from the Night Lords they slew.
	*'''[[Angry Marines]]''' ([[World Eaters]]) - They can say whatever they want about [[Rachnus Rageous\|who they think their Primarch is]], but the Inquisition still suspects [[Angron]].		*'''[[Angry Marines]]''' ([[World Eaters]]) - They can say whatever they want about [[Rachnus Rageous\|who they think their Primarch is]], but the Inquisition still suspects [[Angron]].

50.86.48.125 at 10:43, 9 June 2023

2023-06-09T10:43:35Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:43, 9 June 2023
Line 167:		Line 167:
	*'''[[Grey Knights]]''' (Founders were initially drawn from the [[Knights-Errant]]) - Outright stated, although only from their history. While several Astartes from Traitor Legions were among the founders of the Grey Knights, the Grey Knights believe their gene-seed is derived from the prime template of the Emperor, though whether that's true is a point of contention among the fanbase (despite it being repeatedly and clearly stated in any and all Grey Knight's fluff, it's still unclear just HOW Big E made it).		*'''[[Grey Knights]]''' (Founders were initially drawn from the [[Knights-Errant]]) - Outright stated, although only from their history. While several Astartes from Traitor Legions were among the founders of the Grey Knights, the Grey Knights believe their gene-seed is derived from the prime template of the Emperor, though whether that's true is a point of contention among the fanbase (despite it being repeatedly and clearly stated in any and all Grey Knight's fluff, it's still unclear just HOW Big E made it).
	*'''[[Exorcists]]''' (Official Imperial Fist successors. Classified and speculated Successors of the [[Grey Knights]] in old lore...alternatively [[Word Bearers]]) - The link to the Grey Knights is iffy since only due to a small mention by an Inquisitor, and the Grey Knights are notoriously against ANYONE messing with their gene-seed. However, the Exorcists colors, scripture written on their armour, and nature as anti-[[demon]] specialists is almost 1 to 1 with Heresy-era [[Word Bearers]]. It is not completely impossible since they are from the [[13th Founding\|Dark Founding]].		*'''[[Exorcists]]''' (Official Imperial Fist successors. Classified and speculated Successors of the [[Grey Knights]] in old lore...alternatively [[Word Bearers]]) - The link to the Grey Knights is iffy since only due to a small mention by an Inquisitor, and the Grey Knights are notoriously against ANYONE messing with their gene-seed. However, the Exorcists colors, scripture written on their armour, and nature as anti-[[demon]] specialists is almost 1 to 1 with Heresy-era [[Word Bearers]]. It is not completely impossible since they are from the [[13th Founding\|Dark Founding]].
	*'''[[Carcharodons]]''' (Traitor [[Raven Guard~~]]/[[Night Lords]]/[[World Eaters~~]]) - ~~Speculated~~. Physical traits (black eyes, pale skin) similar to both Raven Guard and Night Lords. A gene scan of a dead Carcharadon revealed markers for Raven Guard. They also suffer a Battle Rage they called "The Blindness" which manifests exactly like the Raven Guard's "Ash Blindness". They often have a black and white morality, focus on shock and fear tactics combined with stealth, and their preferred tactic is to brutally and horrifically annihilate the target population (be they enemy or civilian), but leave a few survivors to go tell everyone else about what happened. Likewise, a Night Lord officer noted that the Carcharodons seems to be a mirror of their own legion, which the original XIXth legion were known to have been. These further indicate they are both of the XIXth Legion, specifically the Terran born XIXth Legion under the command of their original legion commander: Shade Lord "Arkhas Fal", as the Carcharodons share the title for their leader: "Shade Lord". Notably, the Ashen Claws (a nominally loyalist renegade warband form of a different group of Terran-born XIXth Legion who had been exiled by Corax before the Heresy) have flatly called the Carcharodons "traitor-born", as it was most likely Arkhas Fal's Predation Fleet that joined Horus's side in the war. At the very least, it was likely the Carcharadons are who joined Horus, as he gave them the name "Pale Nomads", a title now used by the chief librarian of the Carcharadons. ~~Of course~~, ~~there’s also~~ the ~~possibility that they~~ could ~~have a chimera geneseed…which may not have been chimeric originally~~.		*'''[[Carcharodons]]''' (Traitor [[Raven Guard]]) - All but Confirmed. Physical traits (black eyes, pale skin) similar to both Raven Guard and Night Lords. However, a gene scan of a dead Carcharadon revealed markers for Raven Guard. They also suffer a Battle Rage they called "The Blindness" which manifests exactly like the Raven Guard's "Ash Blindness". They often have a black and white morality, focus on shock and fear tactics combined with stealth, and their preferred tactic is to brutally and horrifically annihilate the target population (be they enemy or civilian), but leave a few survivors to go tell everyone else about what happened. Likewise, a Night Lord officer noted that the Carcharodons seems to be a mirror of their own legion, which the original XIXth legion were known to have been. These further indicate they are both of the XIXth Legion, specifically the Terran born XIXth Legion under the command of their original legion commander: Shade Lord "Arkhas Fal", as the Carcharodons share the title for their leader: "Shade Lord". Notably, the Ashen Claws (a nominally loyalist renegade warband form of a different group of Terran-born XIXth Legion who had been exiled by Corax before the Heresy) have flatly called the Carcharodons "traitor-born", as it was most likely Arkhas Fal's Predation Fleet that joined Horus's side in the war. At the very least, it was likely the Carcharadons are who joined Horus, as he gave them the name "Pale Nomads", a title now used by the chief librarian of the Carcharadons. And after Horus's defeat, they swam off to the Outer Dark until the heat could die down.
	*'''[[Ashen Claws]]''' (Night Lords/Renegade Raven Guard) - Note: While technically not an officially listed chapter, they have recently begun to fight for the Imperium again. Similar to the Carcharadons, they were founded by an exiled predation fleet of the Raven Guard. This time, the fleet lead by Shade Captain Nerat Kirine, the fleet exiled after the Battle of Gate-42. During the heresy, the fleet returned and declared they fought for neither Horus nor the Emperor. Instead they fought for themselves. They raided the Nostromo Sector, looting war gear as well as stealing the geneseed from the Night Lords they slew.		*'''[[Ashen Claws]]''' (Night Lords/Renegade Raven Guard) - Note: While technically not an officially listed chapter, they have recently begun to fight for the Imperium again. Similar to the Carcharadons, they were founded by an exiled predation fleet of the Raven Guard. This time, the fleet lead by Shade Captain Nerat Kirine, the fleet exiled after the Battle of Gate-42. During the heresy, the fleet returned and declared they fought for neither Horus nor the Emperor. Instead they fought for themselves. They raided the Nostromo Sector, looting war gear as well as stealing the geneseed from the Night Lords they slew.
	*'''[[Angry Marines]]''' ([[World Eaters]]) - They can say whatever they want about [[Rachnus Rageous\|who they think their Primarch is]], but the Inquisition still suspects [[Angron]].		*'''[[Angry Marines]]''' ([[World Eaters]]) - They can say whatever they want about [[Rachnus Rageous\|who they think their Primarch is]], but the Inquisition still suspects [[Angron]].

2A02:1810:4E2C:A900:D0CE:2E1B:F4C:B99C at 18:09, 6 June 2023

2023-06-06T18:09:49Z

85.140.93.212: New TS character from HH

2023-05-28T18:09:31Z

New TS character from HH

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:09, 28 May 2023
Line 82:		Line 82:
	** Izzakar Orr (part of the original defense of Prospero, he was slain by the Space Wolves in a warp maze. His soul later helped the Space Wolves in M42 find the maze and rescue 200 Space Wolves who had been trapped since the Burning of Prospero. After reuniting and resurrecting his body, he learned that the attack on Prospero had been ordered by the traitorous Warmaster [[Horus Lupercal]] and not [[Emperor\|the Emperor of Mankind]]. He later closed the warp gate to the maze in order to prevent Magnus the Red from following the Space Wolves).		** Izzakar Orr (part of the original defense of Prospero, he was slain by the Space Wolves in a warp maze. His soul later helped the Space Wolves in M42 find the maze and rescue 200 Space Wolves who had been trapped since the Burning of Prospero. After reuniting and resurrecting his body, he learned that the attack on Prospero had been ordered by the traitorous Warmaster [[Horus Lupercal]] and not [[Emperor\|the Emperor of Mankind]]. He later closed the warp gate to the maze in order to prevent Magnus the Red from following the Space Wolves).
	** Phosis T'Kar (part of the original defense of Prospero. Came to his senses and realized he had been warp corrupted during the battle. He then immediately stopped fighting and allowed Constantin Valdor to execute him rather than continue falling to warp mutations/corruption).		** Phosis T'Kar (part of the original defense of Prospero. Came to his senses and realized he had been warp corrupted during the battle. He then immediately stopped fighting and allowed Constantin Valdor to execute him rather than continue falling to warp mutations/corruption).
			** Magister Sul Kontep (leader of a part of the Fifth Fellowship loyal to the Emperor, who surrendered and were imprisoned in Palace dungeons. Having received a chance for redemption after beggining of Heresy, they fought on the side of the loyalists during the Cthonia campaign).
	* [[Night Lords]]		* [[Night Lords]]
	** Fel Zharost (Former Chief Librarian, sent into exile after Nikaea. Recruited into the Knights-Errant. Possibly became Khyron, one of the founding Grey Knights)		** Fel Zharost (Former Chief Librarian, sent into exile after Nikaea. Recruited into the Knights-Errant. Possibly became Khyron, one of the founding Grey Knights)

2A02:1811:3B7F:B000:158C:123A:DD3D:73F9: /* Loyalist Legion Traitors */

2023-05-23T19:20:12Z

Loyalist Legion Traitors

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:20, 23 May 2023
Line 108:		Line 108:
	**Vortigern. Defected to Horus and after Horus's death was promoted to the Ezekarion, the [[Black Legion]]'s high command.		**Vortigern. Defected to Horus and after Horus's death was promoted to the Ezekarion, the [[Black Legion]]'s high command.
	* [[White Scars]]		* [[White Scars]]
	** The Legion almost fell into a civil war until [[Jaghatai Khan]] intervened and showed them what the traitors were actually doing. Those who had gone too far were executed and the rest were sent on suicide missions as the Sagyar Mazan, the last of whom died trying to delay Mortarion long enough for him to get blown up by the overloading reactors on Jaghatai's flagship. Ironically, despite this near disaster, the Scars got off pretty lightly given that the stupid parts of the legion who would fall to Chaos lies were most of the casualties by the end of the Heresy. Others that were cut off joined up with the Night Lords during the [[Thramas Crusade]], but sacrificed themselves once they realized their allies were wanton psychopaths and because they were actually loyalists tricked by the Night Lords into believing the Dark Angels were traitors due to the First Legion's isolation, all died in the fighting attacking the Night Lords. One group who stayed loyal to Horus and avoided the almost civil war by immediately leaving almost made it to Terra, but got caught by Nathaniel Garro and Macer Varren and got butchered to the last. Also, the Khan was to fell to Chaos but someone switched his fate with Fulgrim's, with both the Emperor and Malcador surprised by this outcome as it was caused by an unknown third party.		** The Legion almost fell into a civil war until [[Jaghatai Khan]] intervened and showed them what the traitors were actually doing. Those who had gone too far were executed and the rest were sent on suicide missions as the Sagyar Mazan, the last of whom died trying to delay Mortarion long enough for him to get blown up by the overloading reactors on Jaghatai's flagship. Ironically, despite this near disaster, the Scars got off pretty lightly given that the stupid parts of the legion who would fall to Chaos lies were most of the casualties by the end of the Heresy. Others that were cut off joined up with the Night Lords during the [[Thramas Crusade]], but sacrificed themselves once they realized their allies were wanton psychopaths and because they were actually loyalists tricked by the Night Lords into believing the Dark Angels were traitors due to the First Legion's isolation, all died in the fighting attacking the Night Lords. One group who stayed loyal to Horus and avoided the almost civil war by immediately leaving almost made it to Terra, but got caught by Nathaniel Garro and Macer Varren and got butchered to the last. Also, the Khan was to fell to Chaos but someone switched his fate with Fulgrim's, with both the Emperor and Malcador surprised by this outcome as it was caused by [[Cegorach\|an unknown third party]].
	* [[Iron Hands]]		* [[Iron Hands]]
	** A company of Iron Hands bearing mixed X and XVI Legion heraldry fought at the Battle of Mezoa, but whatever happened to them after that is unknown.		** A company of Iron Hands bearing mixed X and XVI Legion heraldry fought at the Battle of Mezoa, but whatever happened to them after that is unknown.

1d4chan>TheNuclearSoldier: Poorly written, and the page is not for arguments. Also, the guy who made the chapter said they are IW.

2023-05-23T16:05:26Z

Poorly written, and the page is not for arguments. Also, the guy who made the chapter said they are IW.

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:05, 23 May 2023
Line 134:		Line 134:
	**(Revamped Lore) ([[Iron Warriors]]) - All but confirmed. They maintain a similar battle doctrine that favours close combat but is now also focused on pragmatic, siege, and attrition warfare tactics (their special rule is a near exact match for the Horus Heresy Iron Warrior's signature special rules). Their Ancient Greek theme also matches up with the Iron Warriors' anatolian/eastern-byzantine/ottoman references, and their gene-seed is mentioned to have extremely high assimilation rates, just like the IVth Legion of old. They even have records of action dating back to M32. Horus Heresy Book 6 "Retirbution" also alludes to the Iron Warriors being the progeniotors of the Minotaurs, as there is described a special unit of Iron Warriors who use heavy hypnoindoctrination and specialized in Counter-Astartes tactics. Edwin Brown, a playtester for the [[Badab War]] books, has also stated that the Minotaurs use Iron Warriors gene-seed.		**(Revamped Lore) ([[Iron Warriors]]) - All but confirmed. They maintain a similar battle doctrine that favours close combat but is now also focused on pragmatic, siege, and attrition warfare tactics (their special rule is a near exact match for the Horus Heresy Iron Warrior's signature special rules). Their Ancient Greek theme also matches up with the Iron Warriors' anatolian/eastern-byzantine/ottoman references, and their gene-seed is mentioned to have extremely high assimilation rates, just like the IVth Legion of old. They even have records of action dating back to M32. Horus Heresy Book 6 "Retirbution" also alludes to the Iron Warriors being the progeniotors of the Minotaurs, as there is described a special unit of Iron Warriors who use heavy hypnoindoctrination and specialized in Counter-Astartes tactics. Edwin Brown, a playtester for the [[Badab War]] books, has also stated that the Minotaurs use Iron Warriors gene-seed.
	**Of note: the "new" lore alludes to the possibility of there having been two Chapters called the "Minotaurs", with one being more similar to the old lore descriptions, being part of the [[21st Founding\|21st Cursed Founding]] of M36, and references to chimeric gene-seed. Presumably, the old lore Chapter had chimeric World Eater/someone else (possibly Iron Warriors) geneseed and their creation/extinction was to secretly legitimize the "original" Iron Warrior Minotaurs under the direct command of the [[High Lords of Terra]]. Or the Imperium's shitty record keeping, combined with the (Iron Warriors) Minotaur chapter being so clandestine, lead to a completely unrelated chapter getting the name "Minotaurs" without knowledge of the name having already been taken.		**Of note: the "new" lore alludes to the possibility of there having been two Chapters called the "Minotaurs", with one being more similar to the old lore descriptions, being part of the [[21st Founding\|21st Cursed Founding]] of M36, and references to chimeric gene-seed. Presumably, the old lore Chapter had chimeric World Eater/someone else (possibly Iron Warriors) geneseed and their creation/extinction was to secretly legitimize the "original" Iron Warrior Minotaurs under the direct command of the [[High Lords of Terra]]. Or the Imperium's shitty record keeping, combined with the (Iron Warriors) Minotaur chapter being so clandestine, lead to a completely unrelated chapter getting the name "Minotaurs" without knowledge of the name having already been taken.
	**another note:
	~~OP have not read “Angron slave of nuceria” in that book, you see Mago, a WE captain, whose company fight like before Angron was found, as a Oplitic Phalanx.~~
	~~So, the Greek theme is NOT out for them, moreover the tactica used by the Minotaurs is still like pre-Angrond WE, so no, Minotaurs have not IW Geneseed~~
	*'''[[Shadow Wolves]]''' ([[Luna Wolves]]) - Confirmed by creator, but in-canon explanations currently lacking. Despite not being Space Wolves successors (being listed as Imperial Fists), they use tons of Wolfish iconography [[Bjorn the Fell Handed#Stormfangs\|(no, not '''that''' kind)]]. Author/creator of the chapter ([[Aaron Dembski-Bowden]]) confirms they were created to represent the concept of loyalist Luna Wolves as a tribute to his wife Katie (who is a fan of the Luna Wolves).		*'''[[Shadow Wolves]]''' ([[Luna Wolves]]) - Confirmed by creator, but in-canon explanations currently lacking. Despite not being Space Wolves successors (being listed as Imperial Fists), they use tons of Wolfish iconography [[Bjorn the Fell Handed#Stormfangs\|(no, not '''that''' kind)]]. Author/creator of the chapter ([[Aaron Dembski-Bowden]]) confirms they were created to represent the concept of loyalist Luna Wolves as a tribute to his wife Katie (who is a fan of the Luna Wolves).
	*'''[[Silver Skulls]]''' ([[Iron Warriors]]) - All but confirmed. Suspected to be from the gene-seed of the loyalist Iron Warriors, led by [[Barabas Dantioch]], who helped defend Ultramar. The Silver Skulls are well known for siege warfare (including a rank called "Siege Captain", a rank that had only seen use with the Iron Warriors), masters of building fortifications (their fortress monastery is said to have impressed Rogal Dorn himself), and their Chapter iconography/colors are near identical to pre-Heresy Iron Warriors. Their Chapter records are stated as "lost" so they do not officially know which legion they are founded from, despite being Second Founding. Their gene-seed records on Terra are also locked away beyond even Inquisitional authority. The author of the Silver Skulls series has said they are successors founded from Dantioch's garrison, and were adopted by the Ultramarines (thus making them a case of the ''Ultramarines Connection''). She has also said that their religious aspects are just due to the culture they are recruited from, and Silver Skulls from outside their main recruitment world find these traditions strange and backwards as well.		*'''[[Silver Skulls]]''' ([[Iron Warriors]]) - All but confirmed. Suspected to be from the gene-seed of the loyalist Iron Warriors, led by [[Barabas Dantioch]], who helped defend Ultramar. The Silver Skulls are well known for siege warfare (including a rank called "Siege Captain", a rank that had only seen use with the Iron Warriors), masters of building fortifications (their fortress monastery is said to have impressed Rogal Dorn himself), and their Chapter iconography/colors are near identical to pre-Heresy Iron Warriors. Their Chapter records are stated as "lost" so they do not officially know which legion they are founded from, despite being Second Founding. Their gene-seed records on Terra are also locked away beyond even Inquisitional authority. The author of the Silver Skulls series has said they are successors founded from Dantioch's garrison, and were adopted by the Ultramarines (thus making them a case of the ''Ultramarines Connection''). She has also said that their religious aspects are just due to the culture they are recruited from, and Silver Skulls from outside their main recruitment world find these traditions strange and backwards as well.

84.33.164.170: /* List of suspected chapters */

2023-05-18T19:57:30Z

List of suspected chapters

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:57, 18 May 2023
Line 134:		Line 134:
	**(Revamped Lore) ([[Iron Warriors]]) - All but confirmed. They maintain a similar battle doctrine that favours close combat but is now also focused on pragmatic, siege, and attrition warfare tactics (their special rule is a near exact match for the Horus Heresy Iron Warrior's signature special rules). Their Ancient Greek theme also matches up with the Iron Warriors' anatolian/eastern-byzantine/ottoman references, and their gene-seed is mentioned to have extremely high assimilation rates, just like the IVth Legion of old. They even have records of action dating back to M32. Horus Heresy Book 6 "Retirbution" also alludes to the Iron Warriors being the progeniotors of the Minotaurs, as there is described a special unit of Iron Warriors who use heavy hypnoindoctrination and specialized in Counter-Astartes tactics. Edwin Brown, a playtester for the [[Badab War]] books, has also stated that the Minotaurs use Iron Warriors gene-seed.		**(Revamped Lore) ([[Iron Warriors]]) - All but confirmed. They maintain a similar battle doctrine that favours close combat but is now also focused on pragmatic, siege, and attrition warfare tactics (their special rule is a near exact match for the Horus Heresy Iron Warrior's signature special rules). Their Ancient Greek theme also matches up with the Iron Warriors' anatolian/eastern-byzantine/ottoman references, and their gene-seed is mentioned to have extremely high assimilation rates, just like the IVth Legion of old. They even have records of action dating back to M32. Horus Heresy Book 6 "Retirbution" also alludes to the Iron Warriors being the progeniotors of the Minotaurs, as there is described a special unit of Iron Warriors who use heavy hypnoindoctrination and specialized in Counter-Astartes tactics. Edwin Brown, a playtester for the [[Badab War]] books, has also stated that the Minotaurs use Iron Warriors gene-seed.
	**Of note: the "new" lore alludes to the possibility of there having been two Chapters called the "Minotaurs", with one being more similar to the old lore descriptions, being part of the [[21st Founding\|21st Cursed Founding]] of M36, and references to chimeric gene-seed. Presumably, the old lore Chapter had chimeric World Eater/someone else (possibly Iron Warriors) geneseed and their creation/extinction was to secretly legitimize the "original" Iron Warrior Minotaurs under the direct command of the [[High Lords of Terra]]. Or the Imperium's shitty record keeping, combined with the (Iron Warriors) Minotaur chapter being so clandestine, lead to a completely unrelated chapter getting the name "Minotaurs" without knowledge of the name having already been taken.		**Of note: the "new" lore alludes to the possibility of there having been two Chapters called the "Minotaurs", with one being more similar to the old lore descriptions, being part of the [[21st Founding\|21st Cursed Founding]] of M36, and references to chimeric gene-seed. Presumably, the old lore Chapter had chimeric World Eater/someone else (possibly Iron Warriors) geneseed and their creation/extinction was to secretly legitimize the "original" Iron Warrior Minotaurs under the direct command of the [[High Lords of Terra]]. Or the Imperium's shitty record keeping, combined with the (Iron Warriors) Minotaur chapter being so clandestine, lead to a completely unrelated chapter getting the name "Minotaurs" without knowledge of the name having already been taken.
			**another note:
			OP have not read “Angron slave of nuceria” in that book, you see Mago, a WE captain, whose company fight like before Angron was found, as a Oplitic Phalanx.
			So, the Greek theme is NOT out for them, moreover the tactica used by the Minotaurs is still like pre-Angrond WE, so no, Minotaurs have not IW Geneseed
	*'''[[Shadow Wolves]]''' ([[Luna Wolves]]) - Confirmed by creator, but in-canon explanations currently lacking. Despite not being Space Wolves successors (being listed as Imperial Fists), they use tons of Wolfish iconography [[Bjorn the Fell Handed#Stormfangs\|(no, not '''that''' kind)]]. Author/creator of the chapter ([[Aaron Dembski-Bowden]]) confirms they were created to represent the concept of loyalist Luna Wolves as a tribute to his wife Katie (who is a fan of the Luna Wolves).		*'''[[Shadow Wolves]]''' ([[Luna Wolves]]) - Confirmed by creator, but in-canon explanations currently lacking. Despite not being Space Wolves successors (being listed as Imperial Fists), they use tons of Wolfish iconography [[Bjorn the Fell Handed#Stormfangs\|(no, not '''that''' kind)]]. Author/creator of the chapter ([[Aaron Dembski-Bowden]]) confirms they were created to represent the concept of loyalist Luna Wolves as a tribute to his wife Katie (who is a fan of the Luna Wolves).
	*'''[[Silver Skulls]]''' ([[Iron Warriors]]) - All but confirmed. Suspected to be from the gene-seed of the loyalist Iron Warriors, led by [[Barabas Dantioch]], who helped defend Ultramar. The Silver Skulls are well known for siege warfare (including a rank called "Siege Captain", a rank that had only seen use with the Iron Warriors), masters of building fortifications (their fortress monastery is said to have impressed Rogal Dorn himself), and their Chapter iconography/colors are near identical to pre-Heresy Iron Warriors. Their Chapter records are stated as "lost" so they do not officially know which legion they are founded from, despite being Second Founding. Their gene-seed records on Terra are also locked away beyond even Inquisitional authority. The author of the Silver Skulls series has said they are successors founded from Dantioch's garrison, and were adopted by the Ultramarines (thus making them a case of the ''Ultramarines Connection''). She has also said that their religious aspects are just due to the culture they are recruited from, and Silver Skulls from outside their main recruitment world find these traditions strange and backwards as well.		*'''[[Silver Skulls]]''' ([[Iron Warriors]]) - All but confirmed. Suspected to be from the gene-seed of the loyalist Iron Warriors, led by [[Barabas Dantioch]], who helped defend Ultramar. The Silver Skulls are well known for siege warfare (including a rank called "Siege Captain", a rank that had only seen use with the Iron Warriors), masters of building fortifications (their fortress monastery is said to have impressed Rogal Dorn himself), and their Chapter iconography/colors are near identical to pre-Heresy Iron Warriors. Their Chapter records are stated as "lost" so they do not officially know which legion they are founded from, despite being Second Founding. Their gene-seed records on Terra are also locked away beyond even Inquisitional authority. The author of the Silver Skulls series has said they are successors founded from Dantioch's garrison, and were adopted by the Ultramarines (thus making them a case of the ''Ultramarines Connection''). She has also said that their religious aspects are just due to the culture they are recruited from, and Silver Skulls from outside their main recruitment world find these traditions strange and backwards as well.

1d4chan>Rogalydondon: /* Loyalist Legion Traitors */

2023-04-30T06:44:48Z

Loyalist Legion Traitors

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:44, 30 April 2023
Line 102:		Line 102:
	** Alastor Rushal, “The Raven”: Was captured, tortured, and brainwashed by the Night Lords. Had his tongue cut out. Had no official rank but was somehow able to rise to the Kyroptera, the informal council of captains of the Night Lords. Wielded a gravity hammer weapon, at least part of the time, which is usually a World Eaters weapon. Raven Guard in the Night Lords wielding a weapon usually used by World Eaters. [[Space Sharks\|Hmmmm...]]		** Alastor Rushal, “The Raven”: Was captured, tortured, and brainwashed by the Night Lords. Had his tongue cut out. Had no official rank but was somehow able to rise to the Kyroptera, the informal council of captains of the Night Lords. Wielded a gravity hammer weapon, at least part of the time, which is usually a World Eaters weapon. Raven Guard in the Night Lords wielding a weapon usually used by World Eaters. [[Space Sharks\|Hmmmm...]]
	** Nathian: Left for dead on Istvaan V. Lorgar found him and converted him to Chaos. He later joined the Emperor’s Children to be a mad doctor.		** Nathian: Left for dead on Istvaan V. Lorgar found him and converted him to Chaos. He later joined the Emperor’s Children to be a mad doctor.
	** Some of the Terran-born Raven Guard who'd served with the Luna Wolves prior to Corax's rediscovery defected to the Warmaster's side since they felt more at home with Uncle Horus than with Papa Corax, ~~since he didn~~'~~t like~~ them very much and had exiled most of them to distant crusade fleets. After the war they vanished and never seen again....[[~~Carcharadons~~\|supposedly]]...		** Some of the Terran-born Raven Guard who'd served with the Luna Wolves prior to Corax's rediscovery defected to the Warmaster's side since they felt more at home with Uncle Horus than with Papa Corax, who'd never liked them very much and had exiled most of them to distant crusade fleets. After the war they vanished and were never seen again...[[Carcharodons\|supposedly]]...
	* [[Dark Angels]].		* [[Dark Angels]].
	** Luther. This is so complicated it's not worth getting into here, just look at the Dark Angels and [[Fallen Angels]] pages.		** Luther. This is so complicated it's not worth getting into here, just look at the Dark Angels and [[Fallen Angels]] pages.

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:09, 6 June 2023
Line 91:		Line 91:
	**Kaspian Hecht/Barthusa Narek (Initially drawn to the Knights-Errant. Went rogue and independent of all other factions. Helped Eldrad kill off the Cabal before returning to the Word Bearers secretly with plans to assassinate Lorgar with the Fulgurite leftover from the attempted assassination on Vulkan. Final fate unknown.)		**Kaspian Hecht/Barthusa Narek (Initially drawn to the Knights-Errant. Went rogue and independent of all other factions. Helped Eldrad kill off the Cabal before returning to the Word Bearers secretly with plans to assassinate Lorgar with the Fulgurite leftover from the attempted assassination on Vulkan. Final fate unknown.)
	**Volkhar Wreth (Member of the Crusader Host. Mortally wounded and forcibly bonded with a Daemon on Terra)		**Volkhar Wreth (Member of the Crusader Host. Mortally wounded and forcibly bonded with a Daemon on Terra)
	**[[The Anchorite]] (Disillusioned Word Bearer who surrendered on Calth and was spared by Guilliman. Entered contemplation while detained and re-embraced the [[Imperial Cult\|Lectitio Divinitatus]], which he had memorized in his youth. Interred in an Contemptor Dreadnought after attempting suicide and secretly taught the contents of the book to a selected few in the Imperial Cult's Ecclesiarchy on Almace. Existence revealed during the [[Indomitus Crusade]] and somehow manifests powers of a Living Saint.)		**[[The Anchorite]] (Disillusioned Word Bearer who surrendered on Calth and was spared by Guilliman. Entered contemplation while detained and re-embraced the [[Imperial Cult\|Lectitio Divinitatus]], which he had memorized in his youth. Interred in an Contemptor Dreadnought after attempting suicide and secretly taught the contents of the book to a selected few in the Imperial Cult's Ecclesiarchy on Almace. Existence revealed during the [[Indomitus Crusade]] and somehow manifests powers of a Living Saint.)
	* [[Alpha Legion]]		* [[Alpha Legion]]
	** Legate Chaitan (Leader of a small fleet of loyalist Alpha Legion vessels. KIA alongside his crew and fleet on the strike cruiser ''Sigma'' by Alpharius's manipulation of the ''Sisypheum'''s crew while the Primarch was disguised as [[Shadrak Meduson]])		** Legate Chaitan (Leader of a small fleet of loyalist Alpha Legion vessels. KIA alongside his crew and fleet on the strike cruiser ''Sigma'' by Alpharius's manipulation of the ''Sisypheum'''s crew while the Primarch was disguised as [[Shadrak Meduson]])
Line 98:		Line 98:

	==Loyalist Legion Traitors==		==Loyalist Legion Traitors==
	Traitors? In our Loyalist legions? It’s more likely than you think.		Traitors? In our Loyalist legions? It’s more likely than you think.

	* [[Raven Guard]]		* [[Raven Guard]]
Line 129:		Line 129:

	*'''[[Blood Ravens]]''' The only known copies of their lineage are currently sealed under the orders of the Ordo Malleus:		*'''[[Blood Ravens]]''' The only known copies of their lineage are currently sealed under the orders of the Ordo Malleus:
	** ([[Thousand Sons]]) - All but confirmed. Links to the Thousand Sons Corvidae Cult, high number and heavy usage of Librarians (especially to look into the future to scry enemy's plans like the Corvidae Cult). Just prior to the Fall of Prospero, a psyker named Kallista Eris foresaw the future of the Thousand Sons Corvidae Cult, during which she all but states in incredibly on-the-nose dialogue they will become the Blood Ravens: "The Ravens. I see them too. The lost sons and a Raven of Blood. They cry out for salvation and knowledge, but it is denied!”		** ([[Thousand Sons]]) - All but confirmed. Links to the Thousand Sons Corvidae Cult, high number and heavy usage of Librarians (especially to look into the future to scry enemy's plans like the Corvidae Cult). Just prior to the Fall of Prospero, a psyker named Kallista Eris foresaw the future of the Thousand Sons Corvidae Cult, during which she all but states in incredibly on-the-nose dialogue they will become the Blood Ravens: "The Ravens. I see them too. The lost sons and a Raven of Blood. They cry out for salvation and knowledge, but it is denied!”
	**([[Word Bearers]]) - Speculated, due to operating in Aurelia sub-sector and from the world Cyrene (names associated with the Word Bearers, and an area originally controlled by the Word Bearers during the Great Crusade), as well as a fanatical search for Knowledge (However this is also a trait of the Thousand Sons). Their warcry "Knowledge is power, guard it well", is a direct quote from the Word Bearer First Chaplain [[Erebus]] (However this was also a common saying of the Thousand Sons and spoken by the Thousand Sons Revuel Arvida). However, the Thousand Sons connection is so obvious that this connection is a long shot at best.		**([[Word Bearers]]) - Speculated, due to operating in Aurelia sub-sector and from the world Cyrene (names associated with the Word Bearers, and an area originally controlled by the Word Bearers during the Great Crusade), as well as a fanatical search for Knowledge (However this is also a trait of the Thousand Sons). Their warcry "Knowledge is power, guard it well", is a direct quote from the Word Bearer First Chaplain [[Erebus]] (However this was also a common saying of the Thousand Sons and spoken by the Thousand Sons Revuel Arvida). However, the Thousand Sons connection is so obvious that this connection is a long shot at best.
	*'''[[Minotaurs]]''':		*'''[[Minotaurs]]''':
	**(Old Lore) ([[World Eaters]]) - Speculated. Similar battle doctrine, known for being complete berzerkers in battle. However this maybe due to their chimeric geneseed just making them batshit insane.		**(Old Lore) ([[World Eaters]]) - Speculated. Similar battle doctrine, known for being complete berzerkers in battle. However this maybe due to their chimeric geneseed just making them batshit insane.
	**(Revamped Lore) ([[Iron Warriors]]) - All but confirmed. They maintain a similar battle doctrine that favours close combat but is now also focused on pragmatic, siege, and attrition warfare tactics (their special rule is a near exact match for the Horus Heresy Iron Warrior's signature special rules). Their Ancient Greek theme also matches up with the Iron Warriors' anatolian/eastern-byzantine/ottoman references, and their gene-seed is mentioned to have extremely high assimilation rates, just like the IVth Legion of old. They even have records of action dating back to M32. Horus Heresy Book 6 "Retirbution" also alludes to the Iron Warriors being the progeniotors of the Minotaurs, as there is described a special unit of Iron Warriors who use heavy hypnoindoctrination and specialized in Counter-Astartes tactics. Edwin Brown, a playtester for the [[Badab War]] books, has also stated that the Minotaurs use Iron Warriors gene-seed.		**(Revamped Lore) ([[Iron Warriors]]) - All but confirmed. They maintain a similar battle doctrine that favours close combat but is now also focused on pragmatic, siege, and attrition warfare tactics (their special rule is a near exact match for the Horus Heresy Iron Warrior's signature special rules). Their Ancient Greek theme also matches up with the Iron Warriors' anatolian/eastern-byzantine/ottoman references, and their gene-seed is mentioned to have extremely high assimilation rates, just like the IVth Legion of old. They even have records of action dating back to M32. Horus Heresy Book 6 "Retirbution" also alludes to the Iron Warriors being the progeniotors of the Minotaurs, as there is described a special unit of Iron Warriors who use heavy hypnoindoctrination and specialized in Counter-Astartes tactics. Edwin Brown, a playtester for the [[Badab War]] books, has also stated that the Minotaurs use Iron Warriors gene-seed.
	**Of note: the "new" lore alludes to the possibility of there having been two Chapters called the "Minotaurs", with one being more similar to the old lore descriptions, being part of the [[21st Founding\|21st Cursed Founding]] of M36, and references to chimeric gene-seed. Presumably, the old lore Chapter had chimeric World Eater/someone else (possibly Iron Warriors) geneseed and their creation/extinction was to secretly legitimize the "original" Iron Warrior Minotaurs under the direct command of the [[High Lords of Terra]]. Or the Imperium's shitty record keeping, combined with the (Iron Warriors) Minotaur chapter being so clandestine, lead to a completely unrelated chapter getting the name "Minotaurs" without knowledge of the name having already been taken.		**Of note: the "new" lore alludes to the possibility of there having been two Chapters called the "Minotaurs", with one being more similar to the old lore descriptions, being part of the [[21st Founding\|21st Cursed Founding]] of M36, and references to chimeric gene-seed. Presumably, the old lore Chapter had chimeric World Eater/someone else (possibly Iron Warriors) geneseed and their creation/extinction was to secretly legitimize the "original" Iron Warrior Minotaurs under the direct command of the [[High Lords of Terra]]. Or the Imperium's shitty record keeping, combined with the (Iron Warriors) Minotaur chapter being so clandestine, lead to a completely unrelated chapter getting the name "Minotaurs" without knowledge of the name having already been taken.
	*'''[[Shadow Wolves]]''' ([[Luna Wolves]]) - Confirmed by creator, but in-canon explanations currently lacking. Despite not being Space Wolves successors (being listed as Imperial Fists), they use tons of Wolfish iconography [[Bjorn the Fell Handed#Stormfangs\|(no, not '''that''' kind)]]. Author/creator of the chapter ([[Aaron Dembski-Bowden]]) confirms they were created to represent the concept of loyalist Luna Wolves as a tribute to his wife Katie (who is a fan of the Luna Wolves).		*'''[[Shadow Wolves]]''' ([[Luna Wolves]]) - Confirmed by creator, but in-canon explanations currently lacking. Despite not being Space Wolves successors (being listed as Imperial Fists), they use tons of Wolfish iconography [[Bjorn the Fell Handed#Stormfangs\|(no, not '''that''' kind)]]. Author/creator of the chapter ([[Aaron Dembski-Bowden]]) confirms they were created to represent the concept of loyalist Luna Wolves as a tribute to his wife Katie (who is a fan of the Luna Wolves).