Vicious Mockery - Revision history

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2023-06-23T16:02:51Z

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2023-06-19T14:41:48Z

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1d4chan>Skadooshbag: /* 5E */

2022-07-04T23:16:43Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:16, 4 July 2022
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	You could also slightly reflavor it into your character telling a joke that's so bad it literally causes some of the victim's brain cells to Ragequit. Or you couldd jut have your bard say "you're fat." and derive lulz from that. Or just shout "[[Monty Python\|Ni!]]"		You could also slightly reflavor it into your character telling a joke that's so bad it literally causes some of the victim's brain cells to Ragequit. Or you couldd jut have your bard say "you're fat." and derive lulz from that. Or just shout "[[Monty Python\|Ni!]]"

	However, it's only 1d4 of damage, the lowest die of damage you can use in 5e. For comparison, ''Toll the Dead'' from Xanathar's uses a d8, but upgrades to a freaking ''d12'' if the target is missing even ''a single'' hit point. And to add insult to injury (~~pardon the joke~~), the ''Frostbite'' Cantrip, also from Xanathar's, functions nearly identically to ''Vicious Mockery'', save that it uses a d6 instead of a d4. The advantages ''Vicious Mockery'' has over ''Frostbite'' is that the former doesn't have a somatic component and uses a damage type that isn't commonly resisted, but such things are rarely a consideration in normal gameplay anyway. The lack of a somatic component means that in theory the bard could hold weapons at the same time they cast, helping some bard Gish Builds, but most GM's don't pay hard core attention to spell components anyway so it's not a real distinction.		However, it's only 1d4 of damage, the lowest die of damage you can use in 5e. For comparison, ''Toll the Dead'' from Xanathar's uses a d8, but upgrades to a freaking ''d12'' if the target is missing even ''a single'' hit point. And to add insult to injury (ha), the ''Frostbite'' Cantrip, also from Xanathar's, functions nearly identically to ''Vicious Mockery'', save that it uses a d6 instead of a d4. The advantages ''Vicious Mockery'' has over ''Frostbite'' is that the former doesn't have a somatic component and uses a damage type that isn't commonly resisted, but such things are rarely a consideration in normal gameplay anyway. The lack of a somatic component means that in theory the bard could hold weapons at the same time they cast, helping some bard Gish Builds, but most GM's don't pay hard core attention to spell components anyway so it's not a real distinction.

	A somewhat more serious advantage is the saving throw being wis rather then con, so that if your fighting something with a lot of hit points but is stupid the Mockery would do better, in fact Vicious mockery is one of only two cantrips that call on a save from a mental stat, the other being the above-mentioned Toll the Dead. This gives mockery a niche against people too dumb to understand your insulting them (which makes either no sense or complete sense, depending on the exact flavor of stupid involved), but are tanky or dodgy enough that other cantrips could bounce off them and do no damage. Now is that a broad enough category to make Mockery worth it? While it will vary fromgame to game of course, many low level undead, trolls, handful of giants and some beasts fit into that category. Against higher level 'bosses', espically those with magical abilities, it will struggle but they tend to have high enough stats that any cantrip, which does no damage on a passed save, will struggle.		A somewhat more serious advantage is the saving throw being wis rather then con, so that if your fighting something with a lot of hit points but is stupid the Mockery would do better, in fact Vicious mockery is one of only two cantrips that call on a save from a mental stat, the other being the above-mentioned Toll the Dead. This gives mockery a niche against people too dumb to understand your insulting them (which makes either no sense or complete sense, depending on the exact flavor of stupid involved), but are tanky or dodgy enough that other cantrips could bounce off them and do no damage. Now is that a broad enough category to make Mockery worth it? While it will vary fromgame to game of course, many low level undead, trolls, handful of giants and some beasts fit into that category. Against higher level 'bosses', espically those with magical abilities, it will struggle but they tend to have high enough stats that any cantrip, which does no damage on a passed save, will struggle.

1d4chan>Skadooshbag: /* 5E */

2022-07-04T23:16:21Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:16, 4 July 2022
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	However, it's only 1d4 of damage, the lowest die of damage you can use in 5e. For comparison, ''Toll the Dead'' from Xanathar's uses a d8, but upgrades to a freaking ''d12'' if the target is missing even ''a single'' hit point. And to add insult to injury (pardon the joke), the ''Frostbite'' Cantrip, also from Xanathar's, functions nearly identically to ''Vicious Mockery'', save that it uses a d6 instead of a d4. The advantages ''Vicious Mockery'' has over ''Frostbite'' is that the former doesn't have a somatic component and uses a damage type that isn't commonly resisted, but such things are rarely a consideration in normal gameplay anyway. The lack of a somatic component means that in theory the bard could hold weapons at the same time they cast, helping some bard Gish Builds, but most GM's don't pay hard core attention to spell components anyway so it's not a real distinction.		However, it's only 1d4 of damage, the lowest die of damage you can use in 5e. For comparison, ''Toll the Dead'' from Xanathar's uses a d8, but upgrades to a freaking ''d12'' if the target is missing even ''a single'' hit point. And to add insult to injury (pardon the joke), the ''Frostbite'' Cantrip, also from Xanathar's, functions nearly identically to ''Vicious Mockery'', save that it uses a d6 instead of a d4. The advantages ''Vicious Mockery'' has over ''Frostbite'' is that the former doesn't have a somatic component and uses a damage type that isn't commonly resisted, but such things are rarely a consideration in normal gameplay anyway. The lack of a somatic component means that in theory the bard could hold weapons at the same time they cast, helping some bard Gish Builds, but most GM's don't pay hard core attention to spell components anyway so it's not a real distinction.

	A somewhat more serious advantage is the saving throw being wis rather then con, so that if your fighting something with a lot of hit points but is stupid the Mockery would do better, in fact Vicious mockery is one of only two cantrips that call on a save from a mental stat, the other being the above-mentioned Toll the Dead. This gives mockery a niche against people too dumb to understand your insulting them, but are tanky or dodgy enough that other cantrips could bounce off them and do no damage. Now is that a broad enough category to make Mockery worth it? While it will vary fromgame to game of course, many low level undead, trolls, handful of giants and some beasts fit into that category. Against higher level 'bosses', espically those with magical abilities, it will struggle but they tend to have high enough stats that any cantrip, which does no damage on a passed save, will struggle.		A somewhat more serious advantage is the saving throw being wis rather then con, so that if your fighting something with a lot of hit points but is stupid the Mockery would do better, in fact Vicious mockery is one of only two cantrips that call on a save from a mental stat, the other being the above-mentioned Toll the Dead. This gives mockery a niche against people too dumb to understand your insulting them (which makes either no sense or complete sense, depending on the exact flavor of stupid involved), but are tanky or dodgy enough that other cantrips could bounce off them and do no damage. Now is that a broad enough category to make Mockery worth it? While it will vary fromgame to game of course, many low level undead, trolls, handful of giants and some beasts fit into that category. Against higher level 'bosses', espically those with magical abilities, it will struggle but they tend to have high enough stats that any cantrip, which does no damage on a passed save, will struggle.

	Overall Vicious Mockery has a niche, and an arguably fairly common use scenario, however it is also inarguably used more often than one likely should simply for the memes. Take it, use it, have fun with it, but remember where its strengths lie and play into them. Insult the dumb muscle and use other stuff on the bosses.		Overall Vicious Mockery has a niche, and an arguably fairly common use scenario, however it is also inarguably used more often than one likely should simply for the memes. Take it, use it, have fun with it, but remember where its strengths lie and play into them. Insult the dumb muscle and use other stuff on the bosses.

1d4chan>Skadooshbag: /* 5E */

2022-07-04T23:13:59Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:13, 4 July 2022
Line 13:		Line 13:
	You could also slightly reflavor it into your character telling a joke that's so bad it literally causes some of the victim's brain cells to Ragequit. Or you couldd jut have your bard say "you're fat." and derive lulz from that. Or just shout "[[Monty Python\|Ni!]]"		You could also slightly reflavor it into your character telling a joke that's so bad it literally causes some of the victim's brain cells to Ragequit. Or you couldd jut have your bard say "you're fat." and derive lulz from that. Or just shout "[[Monty Python\|Ni!]]"

	However, it's only 1d4 of damage, the lowest die of damage you can use in 5e. For comparison, ''Toll the Dead'' from Xanathar's uses a d8, but upgrades to a freaking ''d12'' if the target is missing even ''a single'' hit point. And to add insult to injury, the ''Frostbite'' Cantrip, also from Xanathar's, functions nearly identically to ''Vicious Mockery'', save that it uses a d6 instead of a d4. The advantages ''Vicious Mockery'' has over ''Frostbite'' is that the former doesn't have a somatic component and uses a damage type that isn't commonly resisted, but such things are rarely a consideration in normal gameplay anyway. The lack of a somatic component means that in theory the bard could hold weapons at the same time they cast, helping some bard Gish Builds, but most GM's don't pay hard core attention to spell components anyway so it's not a real distinction.		However, it's only 1d4 of damage, the lowest die of damage you can use in 5e. For comparison, ''Toll the Dead'' from Xanathar's uses a d8, but upgrades to a freaking ''d12'' if the target is missing even ''a single'' hit point. And to add insult to injury (pardon the joke), the ''Frostbite'' Cantrip, also from Xanathar's, functions nearly identically to ''Vicious Mockery'', save that it uses a d6 instead of a d4. The advantages ''Vicious Mockery'' has over ''Frostbite'' is that the former doesn't have a somatic component and uses a damage type that isn't commonly resisted, but such things are rarely a consideration in normal gameplay anyway. The lack of a somatic component means that in theory the bard could hold weapons at the same time they cast, helping some bard Gish Builds, but most GM's don't pay hard core attention to spell components anyway so it's not a real distinction.

	A somewhat more serious advantage is the saving throw being wis rather then con, so that if your fighting something with a lot of hit points but is stupid the Mockery would do better, in fact Vicious mockery is one of only two cantrips that call on a save from a mental stat, the other being the above-mentioned Toll the Dead. This gives mockery a niche against people too dumb to understand your insulting them, but are tanky or dodgy enough that other cantrips could bounce off them and do no damage. Now is that a broad enough category to make Mockery worth it? While it will vary fromgame to game of course, many low level undead, trolls, handful of giants and some beasts fit into that category. Against higher level 'bosses', espically those with magical abilities, it will struggle but they tend to have high enough stats that any cantrip, which does no damage on a passed save, will struggle.		A somewhat more serious advantage is the saving throw being wis rather then con, so that if your fighting something with a lot of hit points but is stupid the Mockery would do better, in fact Vicious mockery is one of only two cantrips that call on a save from a mental stat, the other being the above-mentioned Toll the Dead. This gives mockery a niche against people too dumb to understand your insulting them, but are tanky or dodgy enough that other cantrips could bounce off them and do no damage. Now is that a broad enough category to make Mockery worth it? While it will vary fromgame to game of course, many low level undead, trolls, handful of giants and some beasts fit into that category. Against higher level 'bosses', espically those with magical abilities, it will struggle but they tend to have high enough stats that any cantrip, which does no damage on a passed save, will struggle.

1d4chan>Skadooshbag: /* 5E */

2022-07-04T23:11:39Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:11, 4 July 2022
Line 11:		Line 11:
	It's awesome because it gives you an excuse to make a character who's just a nonstop fountain of schlocky one-liners, and the ability to kill the BBEG by insulting their mother. Even better, the clause about the target not needing to understand your language means that, if a bard is nearby, people in this world can suddenly have an emotional breakdown without even understanding why. Lastly the cantrip also gives the target disadvantage on its next attack roll.		It's awesome because it gives you an excuse to make a character who's just a nonstop fountain of schlocky one-liners, and the ability to kill the BBEG by insulting their mother. Even better, the clause about the target not needing to understand your language means that, if a bard is nearby, people in this world can suddenly have an emotional breakdown without even understanding why. Lastly the cantrip also gives the target disadvantage on its next attack roll.

	You could also slightly reflavor it into your character telling a joke that's so bad it literally causes some of the victim's brain cells to Ragequit.		You could also slightly reflavor it into your character telling a joke that's so bad it literally causes some of the victim's brain cells to Ragequit. Or you couldd jut have your bard say "you're fat." and derive lulz from that. Or just shout "[[Monty Python\|Ni!]]"

	However, it's only 1d4 of damage, the lowest die of damage you can use in 5e. For comparison, ''Toll the Dead'' from Xanathar's uses a d8, but upgrades to a freaking ''d12'' if the target is missing even ''a single'' hit point. And to add insult to injury, the ''Frostbite'' Cantrip, also from Xanathar's, functions nearly identically to ''Vicious Mockery'', save that it uses a d6 instead of a d4. The advantages ''Vicious Mockery'' has over ''Frostbite'' is that the former doesn't have a somatic component and uses a damage type that isn't commonly resisted, but such things are rarely a consideration in normal gameplay anyway. The lack of a somatic component means that in theory the bard could hold weapons at the same time they cast, helping some bard Gish Builds, but most GM's don't pay hard core attention to spell components anyway so it's not a real distinction.		However, it's only 1d4 of damage, the lowest die of damage you can use in 5e. For comparison, ''Toll the Dead'' from Xanathar's uses a d8, but upgrades to a freaking ''d12'' if the target is missing even ''a single'' hit point. And to add insult to injury, the ''Frostbite'' Cantrip, also from Xanathar's, functions nearly identically to ''Vicious Mockery'', save that it uses a d6 instead of a d4. The advantages ''Vicious Mockery'' has over ''Frostbite'' is that the former doesn't have a somatic component and uses a damage type that isn't commonly resisted, but such things are rarely a consideration in normal gameplay anyway. The lack of a somatic component means that in theory the bard could hold weapons at the same time they cast, helping some bard Gish Builds, but most GM's don't pay hard core attention to spell components anyway so it's not a real distinction.

2603:8001:3500:CB:3515:1B70:20D1:AAD3: /* 5E */

2021-06-16T04:49:06Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:49, 16 June 2021
Line 17:		Line 17:
	A somewhat more serious advantage is the saving throw being wis rather then con, so that if your fighting something with a lot of hit points but is stupid the Mockery would do better, in fact Vicious mockery is one of only two cantrips that call on a save from a mental stat, the other being the above-mentioned Toll the Dead. This gives mockery a niche against people too dumb to understand your insulting them, but are tanky or dodgy enough that other cantrips could bounce off them and do no damage. Now is that a broad enough category to make Mockery worth it? While it will vary fromgame to game of course, many low level undead, trolls, handful of giants and some beasts fit into that category. Against higher level 'bosses', espically those with magical abilities, it will struggle but they tend to have high enough stats that any cantrip, which does no damage on a passed save, will struggle.		A somewhat more serious advantage is the saving throw being wis rather then con, so that if your fighting something with a lot of hit points but is stupid the Mockery would do better, in fact Vicious mockery is one of only two cantrips that call on a save from a mental stat, the other being the above-mentioned Toll the Dead. This gives mockery a niche against people too dumb to understand your insulting them, but are tanky or dodgy enough that other cantrips could bounce off them and do no damage. Now is that a broad enough category to make Mockery worth it? While it will vary fromgame to game of course, many low level undead, trolls, handful of giants and some beasts fit into that category. Against higher level 'bosses', espically those with magical abilities, it will struggle but they tend to have high enough stats that any cantrip, which does no damage on a passed save, will struggle.

	Overall Vicious Mockery has a niche, and an arguably fairly common use scenario, however it is also ~~inarguable~~ used more often ~~then~~ likely should simply for the ~~meme's~~. Take it, use it, have fun with it, but remember where ~~it's strength's~~ lie and play into them. Insult the dumb muscle and use other stuff on the bosses.		Overall Vicious Mockery has a niche, and an arguably fairly common use scenario, however it is also inarguably used more often than one likely should simply for the memes. Take it, use it, have fun with it, but remember where its strengths lie and play into them. Insult the dumb muscle and use other stuff on the bosses.

	==Gallery==		==Gallery==
	[[File:Morte.jpg\|frameless\|Using said ability since 1999. Years before it was printed.]]		[[File:Morte.jpg\|frameless\|Using said ability since 1999. Years before it was printed.]]

2603:8001:3500:CB:3515:1B70:20D1:AAD3: /* 5E */

2021-06-16T04:46:39Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:46, 16 June 2021
Line 9:		Line 9:

	==[[Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition\|5E]]==		==[[Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition\|5E]]==
	It's awesome because it gives you an excuse to make a character who's just a nonstop fountain of schlocky one-liners, and the ability to kill the BBEG by insulting their mother. Even better, the clause about the target not needing to understand your language means that, if a bard is nearby, people in this world can suddenly have an ~~emotion~~ breakdown without even understanding why. Lastly the cantrip also gives the target disadvantage on its next attack roll.		It's awesome because it gives you an excuse to make a character who's just a nonstop fountain of schlocky one-liners, and the ability to kill the BBEG by insulting their mother. Even better, the clause about the target not needing to understand your language means that, if a bard is nearby, people in this world can suddenly have an emotional breakdown without even understanding why. Lastly the cantrip also gives the target disadvantage on its next attack roll.

	You could also slightly reflavor it into your character telling a joke that's so bad it literally causes some of the victim's brain cells to Ragequit.		You could also slightly reflavor it into your character telling a joke that's so bad it literally causes some of the victim's brain cells to Ragequit.

1d4chan>Martyr Complex: fixing headers

2021-05-18T03:44:19Z

fixing headers

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:44, 18 May 2021
Line 5:		Line 5:
	'''Vicious Mockery''' is a [[Bard]] Cantrip from [[Dungeons & Dragons\|Dungeons & Dragons]] that's tied with the class itself just because of how priceless it is. It's widely loved for its incredibly memeable fluff, so much so that nobody seems to realize that the crunch offers questionable value at times.		'''Vicious Mockery''' is a [[Bard]] Cantrip from [[Dungeons & Dragons\|Dungeons & Dragons]] that's tied with the class itself just because of how priceless it is. It's widely loved for its incredibly memeable fluff, so much so that nobody seems to realize that the crunch offers questionable value at times.

	===[[Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition\|4E]]===		==[[Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition\|4E]]==
	Of course it's here as an at-will power. It's a pretty basic ranged attack, dependent on an implement and obviously reliant on Charisma to hit against an enemy's Will. Its damage is also respectable at a fixed 1d6+Cha damage and makes the target take -2 to attack rolls until the end of your next turn.		Of course it's here as an at-will power. It's a pretty basic ranged attack, dependent on an implement and obviously reliant on Charisma to hit against an enemy's Will. Its damage is also respectable at a fixed 1d6+Cha damage and makes the target take -2 to attack rolls until the end of your next turn.

	===[[Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition\|5E]]===		==[[Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition\|5E]]==
	It's awesome because it gives you an excuse to make a character who's just a nonstop fountain of schlocky one-liners, and the ability to kill the BBEG by insulting their mother. Even better, the clause about the target not needing to understand your language means that, if a bard is nearby, people in this world can suddenly have an emotion breakdown without even understanding why. Lastly the cantrip also gives the target disadvantage on its next attack roll.		It's awesome because it gives you an excuse to make a character who's just a nonstop fountain of schlocky one-liners, and the ability to kill the BBEG by insulting their mother. Even better, the clause about the target not needing to understand your language means that, if a bard is nearby, people in this world can suddenly have an emotion breakdown without even understanding why. Lastly the cantrip also gives the target disadvantage on its next attack roll.

2A02:1811:5180:A200:EC3D:29FD:FA1D:618: /* Gallery */

2020-06-22T11:04:21Z

Gallery

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:04, 22 June 2020
Line 20:		Line 20:

	==Gallery==		==Gallery==
			[[File:Morte.jpg\|frameless\|Using said ability since 1999. Years before it was printed.]]
	~~</gallery>~~