War Wagon - Revision history

imported>Administrator: 15 revisions imported

2023-06-23T16:16:07Z

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2A02:8108:49C0:17B0:D198:C7CD:5D51:C9BB: /* The Original War Wagons */

2023-06-08T19:19:17Z

The Original War Wagons

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:19, 8 June 2023
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	==The Original War Wagons==		==The Original War Wagons==
	Introduced in Empires armybook for Warhammer Fantasy 4th edition, the War wagon was a chariot pulled by 2 armoured warhorses and housed 6 goobers armed with an array of experimental (and in some cases impractical) weapons from the [[Nuln]] ~~armoires~~, including the repeater hand gun. The War Wagon was pretty tough with 5 wounds and could continue to be pulled by the horses, even if the crew were all killed, and if the War Wagon was destroyed the crew could all jump out and act as a sort of ad hoc unit to reinforce other troopers. When 6th edition launched the War wagons were dropped from the Empire army book, however the War Wagon would survive in [[Warmaster]] when [[Kislev]] was given rules.		Introduced in Empires armybook for Warhammer Fantasy 4th edition, the War wagon was a chariot pulled by 2 armoured warhorses and housed 6 goobers armed with an array of experimental (and in some cases impractical) weapons from the [[Nuln]] armories, including the repeater hand gun. The War Wagon was pretty tough with 5 wounds and could continue to be pulled by the horses, even if the crew were all killed, and if the War Wagon was destroyed the crew could all jump out and act as a sort of ad hoc unit to reinforce other troopers. When 6th edition launched the War wagons were dropped from the Empire army book, however the War Wagon would survive in [[Warmaster]] when [[Kislev]] was given rules.

	The War wagons actually originated in [[Kislev]] from the nomadic Ungols, who would carry their shit around in large caravans of reinforced and armoured wagons, that could be set up in a defensive ring around the tribe when they stopped to make camp or in an emergency to fight off an attacking foe. These "steppe wagons" could be used as raised defensive position that the Ungols could use to fire arrows from cover and as barriers and barricades to approving attackers. After the Gospadar invasion and formation of Kislev the Ungols would continue to use these wagons for their nomadic tribes, and the Gospadars took note of their effectiveness and developed a smaller, better armoured version for their own use, which could carry [[Kossars]] (and later Streltsi) or be equipped with cannons and artillery pieces to act as mobile artillery. These were the first proper War Wagons and were very effective against the Chaos Hordes on the open steppes of Kislev as they could be parked to make a defensive position, fired from and then moved when the Northmen got close, or large numbers of them could be parked in a line to make a defensive structure in front of and around towns, that let the Kislevites fight from elevated positions. In case you haven't cached on yet, these war wagons are pretty much 1 to 1 copies of the real world war wagons that were used by European and Slavic nations between the 14th and 16th centuries.		The War wagons actually originated in [[Kislev]] from the nomadic Ungols, who would carry their shit around in large caravans of reinforced and armoured wagons, that could be set up in a defensive ring around the tribe when they stopped to make camp or in an emergency to fight off an attacking foe. These "steppe wagons" could be used as raised defensive position that the Ungols could use to fire arrows from cover and as barriers and barricades to approving attackers. After the Gospadar invasion and formation of Kislev the Ungols would continue to use these wagons for their nomadic tribes, and the Gospadars took note of their effectiveness and developed a smaller, better armoured version for their own use, which could carry [[Kossars]] (and later Streltsi) or be equipped with cannons and artillery pieces to act as mobile artillery. These were the first proper War Wagons and were very effective against the Chaos Hordes on the open steppes of Kislev as they could be parked to make a defensive position, fired from and then moved when the Northmen got close, or large numbers of them could be parked in a line to make a defensive structure in front of and around towns, that let the Kislevites fight from elevated positions. In case you haven't cached on yet, these war wagons are pretty much 1 to 1 copies of the real world war wagons that were used by European and Slavic nations between the 14th and 16th centuries.

2A01:CB19:7C8:DB00:95AC:EFAC:6DA9:92BB at 13:34, 17 May 2023

2023-05-17T13:34:23Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:34, 17 May 2023
Line 7:		Line 7:
	The War wagons actually originated in [[Kislev]] from the nomadic Ungols, who would carry their shit around in large caravans of reinforced and armoured wagons, that could be set up in a defensive ring around the tribe when they stopped to make camp or in an emergency to fight off an attacking foe. These "steppe wagons" could be used as raised defensive position that the Ungols could use to fire arrows from cover and as barriers and barricades to approving attackers. After the Gospadar invasion and formation of Kislev the Ungols would continue to use these wagons for their nomadic tribes, and the Gospadars took note of their effectiveness and developed a smaller, better armoured version for their own use, which could carry [[Kossars]] (and later Streltsi) or be equipped with cannons and artillery pieces to act as mobile artillery. These were the first proper War Wagons and were very effective against the Chaos Hordes on the open steppes of Kislev as they could be parked to make a defensive position, fired from and then moved when the Northmen got close, or large numbers of them could be parked in a line to make a defensive structure in front of and around towns, that let the Kislevites fight from elevated positions. In case you haven't cached on yet, these war wagons are pretty much 1 to 1 copies of the real world war wagons that were used by European and Slavic nations between the 14th and 16th centuries.		The War wagons actually originated in [[Kislev]] from the nomadic Ungols, who would carry their shit around in large caravans of reinforced and armoured wagons, that could be set up in a defensive ring around the tribe when they stopped to make camp or in an emergency to fight off an attacking foe. These "steppe wagons" could be used as raised defensive position that the Ungols could use to fire arrows from cover and as barriers and barricades to approving attackers. After the Gospadar invasion and formation of Kislev the Ungols would continue to use these wagons for their nomadic tribes, and the Gospadars took note of their effectiveness and developed a smaller, better armoured version for their own use, which could carry [[Kossars]] (and later Streltsi) or be equipped with cannons and artillery pieces to act as mobile artillery. These were the first proper War Wagons and were very effective against the Chaos Hordes on the open steppes of Kislev as they could be parked to make a defensive position, fired from and then moved when the Northmen got close, or large numbers of them could be parked in a line to make a defensive structure in front of and around towns, that let the Kislevites fight from elevated positions. In case you haven't cached on yet, these war wagons are pretty much 1 to 1 copies of the real world war wagons that were used by European and Slavic nations between the 14th and 16th centuries.
	[[File:Kislev War Wagon (Warmaster)-painted by Agis Neugebauer.jpg\|thumb\|right\|300px\|So good, the Empire copied it.]]		[[File:Kislev War Wagon (Warmaster)-painted by Agis Neugebauer.jpg\|thumb\|right\|300px\|So good, the Empire copied it.]]
	With the coming of [[Warhammer: The Old World\|The Old World]] and [[Total War: Warhammer\|Total War: Warhammer 3]] the old Kislevite war wagon has got a new variant with the War Sled. The most obvious difference is that the War Sled is pulled by FUCKING BEARS instead of horses and it comes in light and heavy variants. Oh and their pulled on [[Wat\|"magic ice bullshit" rather than on a normal toboggan bed or runners]] (though in the concept art they are on a toboggan bed). It seems that the War Sled is a replacement for the original War Wagon even though the War Sled actually fills out a different role, as it's a mix between skirmish and shock chariots with the bears mauling fuckers and the Streltsi in the back shooting people as they go past. This is compared to the War Wagon which is a movable firing and defensive position that can also be implemented to be used as protected supply train. So it wouldn't make sense for the War Sled to be a replacement for the War Wagon, as the War Sled is too low to be used as an effective defensive position and the bears would be ill suited for long haul travel (if you run out of grain or hay for a horse it won't turn around and eat you when it's hungry) but it does make sense to be a variant developed to act in a more aggressive skirmishing role in battles.		With the coming of [[Warhammer: The Old World\|The Old World]] and [[Total War: Warhammer\|Total War: Warhammer 3]] the old Kislevite war wagon has got a new variant with the War Sled. The most obvious difference is that the War Sled is pulled by FUCKING BEARS instead of horses and it comes in light and heavy variants. Oh and their pulled on [[Wat\|"magic ice bullshit" rather than on a normal toboggan bed or runners]] (though in the concept art they are on a toboggan bed). It seems that the War Sled is a replacement for the original War Wagon even though the War Sled actually fills out a different role, as it's a mix between skirmish and shock chariots with the bears mauling fuckers and the Streltsi in the back shooting people as they go past. This is compared to the War Wagon which is a movable firing and defensive position that can also be implemented to be used as protected supply train. So it wouldn't make sense for the War Sled to be a replacement for the War Wagon, as the War Sled is too low to be used as an effective defensive position and the bears would be ill suited for long haul travel (if you run out of grain or hay for a horse it won't turn around and eat you when it's hungry) but it does make sense to be a variant developed to act in a more aggressive skirmishing role in battles.

	Of course the War Wagon could have been phased out by Kislev for the same reason they were phased out in the real world, that reason being cannons and artillery being effective at just blowing the wagons apart from range. If this was the case Kislev would have needed a more mobile and flexible firing platform, which the War Sled would provide resulting it being implemented more and more and the War Wagon moved from a combat role to a supply role for armies way from cities and in need of supply lines. This is the most logical reason from a fluff point of view for the War Sled to be a "replacement" for the War Wagon. However the most likely reason is GW's caveman logic saying [[Derp\|"Kislev = Russia. Russia = Cold. Sleds used in Cold, so replace Wagon with Sled. Bears = Russian, so replace horses with bears"]] [[Fail\|without them actually thinking about the logistical and actual fluff consequences this would have.]]		Of course the War Wagon could have been phased out by Kislev for the same reason they were phased out in the real world, that reason being cannons and artillery being effective at just blowing the wagons apart from range. If this was the case Kislev would have needed a more mobile and flexible firing platform, which the War Sled would provide resulting it being implemented more and more and the War Wagon moved from a combat role to a supply role for armies way from cities and in need of supply lines. This is the most logical reason from a fluff point of view for the War Sled to be a "replacement" for the War Wagon. However the most likely reason is GW's caveman logic saying [[Derp\|"Kislev = Russia. Russia = Cold. Sleds used in Cold, so replace Wagon with Sled. Bears = Russian, so replace horses with bears"]] [[Fail\|without them actually thinking about the logistical and actual fluff consequences this would have.]]

1d4chan>Stephenlucas600: /* Gallery */

2021-11-20T00:54:27Z

Gallery

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:54, 20 November 2021
Line 33:		Line 33:
	[[Category:Kislev]]		[[Category:Kislev]]
	[[Category:The Empire]]		[[Category:The Empire]]
			{{Troops of the Empire of Sigmar}}

1d4chan>SabbatMartyr at 01:05, 26 August 2021

2021-08-26T01:05:42Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:05, 26 August 2021
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	~~{{Whfb-stub}}~~		[[file:War wagon 2.jpg\|right\|thumb\|300px\|The guns have misfired, the wheels nearly come off and the driver was almost killed, but the buggers still rolling]]
	~~[[Category:Kislev]]~~		'''War Wagons''' and their cousins '''War Altars'''/'''Battle Altars''', are chariots and wagons that have been beefed up into small mobile firing positions, battle towers, holy altars, or magical artillery pieces. They are fielded by the [[The Empire (Warhammer Fantasy)\|Empire]] and [[Kislev]] and depending on which variant you are looking at their basis in reality can swing from "a real thing dropped into Warhammer" to "completely fucking stupid".
	~~[[Category:The Empire]]~~
	[[~~File~~:War wagon 1.~~png~~\|thumb\|~~a parade of Flagellants with a battle cathedral~~]]		==The Original War Wagons==
	'''War Wagons'''~~, also called~~ '''War Altars''' or '''Battle Altars''', are chariots or wagons that have been ~~souped~~ up into mobile battle towers, holy altars, or magical artillery pieces. They are fielded by the Empire.		Introduced in Empires armybook for Warhammer Fantasy 4th edition, the War wagon was a chariot pulled by 2 armoured warhorses and housed 6 goobers armed with an array of experimental (and in some cases impractical) weapons from the [[Nuln]] armoires, including the repeater hand gun. The War Wagon was pretty tough with 5 wounds and could continue to be pulled by the horses, even if the crew were all killed, and if the War Wagon was destroyed the crew could all jump out and act as a sort of ad hoc unit to reinforce other troopers. When 6th edition launched the War wagons were dropped from the Empire army book, however the War Wagon would survive in [[Warmaster]] when [[Kislev]] was given rules.

			The War wagons actually originated in [[Kislev]] from the nomadic Ungols, who would carry their shit around in large caravans of reinforced and armoured wagons, that could be set up in a defensive ring around the tribe when they stopped to make camp or in an emergency to fight off an attacking foe. These "steppe wagons" could be used as raised defensive position that the Ungols could use to fire arrows from cover and as barriers and barricades to approving attackers. After the Gospadar invasion and formation of Kislev the Ungols would continue to use these wagons for their nomadic tribes, and the Gospadars took note of their effectiveness and developed a smaller, better armoured version for their own use, which could carry [[Kossars]] (and later Streltsi) or be equipped with cannons and artillery pieces to act as mobile artillery. These were the first proper War Wagons and were very effective against the Chaos Hordes on the open steppes of Kislev as they could be parked to make a defensive position, fired from and then moved when the Northmen got close, or large numbers of them could be parked in a line to make a defensive structure in front of and around towns, that let the Kislevites fight from elevated positions. In case you haven't cached on yet, these war wagons are pretty much 1 to 1 copies of the real world war wagons that were used by European and Slavic nations between the 14th and 16th centuries.
			[[File:Kislev War Wagon (Warmaster)-painted by Agis Neugebauer.jpg\|thumb\|right\|300px\|So good, the Empire copied it.]]
			With the coming of [[Warhammer: The Old World\|The Old World]] and [[Total War: Warhammer\|Total War: Warhammer 3]] the old Kislevite war wagon has got a new variant with the War Sled. The most obvious difference is that the War Sled is pulled by FUCKING BEARS instead of horses and it comes in light and heavy variants. Oh and their pulled on [[Wat\|"magic ice bullshit" rather than on a normal toboggan bed or runners]] (though in the concept art they are on a toboggan bed). It seems that the War Sled is a replacement for the original War Wagon even though the War Sled actually fills out a different role, as it's a mix between skirmish and shock chariots with the bears mauling fuckers and the Streltsi in the back shooting people as they go past. This is compared to the War Wagon which is a movable firing and defensive position that can also be implemented to be used as protected supply train. So it wouldn't make sense for the War Sled to be a replacement for the War Wagon, as the War Sled is too low to be used as an effective defensive position and the bears would be ill suited for long haul travel (if you run out of grain or hay for a horse it won't turn around and eat you when it's hungry) but it does make sense to be a variant developed to act in a more aggressive skirmishing role in battles.

			Of course the War Wagon could have been phased out by Kislev for the same reason they were phased out in the real world, that reason being cannons and artillery being effective at just blowing the wagons apart from range. If this was the case Kislev would have needed a more mobile and flexible firing platform, which the War Sled would provide resulting it being implemented more and more and the War Wagon moved from a combat role to a supply role for armies way from cities and in need of supply lines. This is the most logical reason from a fluff point of view for the War Sled to be a "replacement" for the War Wagon. However the most likely reason is GW's caveman logic saying [[Derp\|"Kislev = Russia. Russia = Cold. Sleds used in Cold, so replace Wagon with Sled. Bears = Russian, so replace horses with bears"]] [[Fail\|without them actually thinking about the logistical and actual fluff consequences this would have.]]

			===Magical Artillery===
			So we've talked about the reasonable War Wagon, now lets talk about the retarded battle alters. Added in 8th edition (because most of the stuff like this was added around this time) the Empire received two new magical pieces of machinery built by the colleges of magic. The First one was the Luminark of Hysh, which is basically a magical [[Lascannon]]. Powered by an Orb of Sorcery which is an extremely rare gift from [[Teclis]] when the colleges were founded, the machine gathers magic from the wind of Hysh and then releases it, with magi being focused through the optics of the machine and fired out as massive kill-laser that can vaporise giants, trolls, ogres and what ever else it hits. On the table tope this was a S8 flaming attack, magic missile that acted like a Bolt Thrower and that armour saves could not be taken against. The Luminark also gave all units with 6" a 6+ ward save as the magic radiated out and protects those near by, while also adding one die to the controlling players dispel pool.

			The second battle alter is the Celestial Hurricanum, which is a portable weather machine. The device channels the wind of Azyr and forms a magical storm over the machine, which is then directed by a battle wizard towards the enemy unit that has particularly pissed him off that day. The machine is less reliable the Luminark as the storm can be anything from a localised rain shower to an Orbital strike. This is represented on the table top by the Hurricanum using a scatter die and having a randomised range of effects it can use on the enemy. Also like the Luminark it buffs nearby units giving them +1 to hit in combat and adding 1 die to the controlling players power pool during the magical phase. Time hasn't treated these units and models well as they are another example pointed to by Fantasy players as 8th edition fucking up the updates and giving armies stupid looking units that weren't really needed by the army they were given to, and while no where near ridiculed as much as the skycutter chariot, the battle alters are no Empire players favourite unit.

			===The War Alter===
			Built after the ascension of [[Magnus the Pious]] to Emperor, the War Alter was created to be a symbol of might and faith in Sigmar on the battlefields of the Empire. There is only the one official War Alter, which is kept in the temple of Sigmar in [[Altdorf]] and is kept maintained by the current Grand Theogonist, making the Warhammer equivalent of the Popemobile (though it can be used by the Arch-Lectors). Each Grand Theoginst also gets to make modifications to the War Alter, adding and removing parts to customise the wagon to their own needs and wants, though the giant golden griffon remains untouched. There is mention and art of other horse and man pulled carts that could be classified as "War Alters" in the fluff as well.

	==~~=Classic War Wagon=~~==		==Gallery==
	<gallery>		<gallery>
	~~War wagon 2.jpg\|how [[Nuln]] field test their gear~~
	War wagon model.jpg		War wagon model.jpg
	War wagon crew.jpg		War wagon crew.jpg
	~~</gallery>~~		War altar.png\|"CAN I GET A HALLELUJAH!"
	~~===War Altar of Sigmar===~~
	~~<gallery>~~
	War altar.png
	War altar model.jpg		War altar model.jpg
	~~</gallery>~~		War wagon 1.png\|Today in "the Cult of Sigmar ones up the Imperium with their fanaticism."
	~~===Celestial Hurricanum===~~
	~~<gallery>~~
	Hurricanum.png\|[[Lizardmen\|We don't have orbital lasers]] but clouds are the next best thing.		Hurricanum.png\|[[Lizardmen\|We don't have orbital lasers]] but clouds are the next best thing.
	Hurricanum model.jpg		Hurricanum model.jpg
	~~</gallery>~~
	~~===Luminark of Hysh===~~
	~~<gallery>~~
	Luminark.png\|Feel relieved that the Empire's tax money is going to giant medieval lasers.		Luminark.png\|Feel relieved that the Empire's tax money is going to giant medieval lasers.
	Luminark model.webp		Luminark model.webp
	</gallery>		</gallery>
			[[Category:Kislev]]
			[[Category:The Empire]]

1d4chan>Nubnuber at 19:13, 21 January 2021

2021-01-21T19:13:32Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:13, 21 January 2021
Line 3:		Line 3:
	[[Category:The Empire]]		[[Category:The Empire]]
	[[File:War wagon 1.png\|thumb\|a parade of Flagellants with a battle cathedral]]		[[File:War wagon 1.png\|thumb\|a parade of Flagellants with a battle cathedral]]
	'''War Wagons''', also called '''War Altars''' or '''Battle Altars''', are chariots or wagons that have been souped up into mobile battle towers, holy altars, or magical artillery pieces.		'''War Wagons''', also called '''War Altars''' or '''Battle Altars''', are chariots or wagons that have been souped up into mobile battle towers, holy altars, or magical artillery pieces. They are fielded by the Empire.

	===Classic War Wagon===		===Classic War Wagon===

1d4chan>Nubnuber at 19:12, 21 January 2021

2021-01-21T19:12:32Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:12, 21 January 2021
Line 2:		Line 2:
	[[Category:Kislev]]		[[Category:Kislev]]
	[[Category:The Empire]]		[[Category:The Empire]]
			[[File:War wagon 1.png\|thumb\|a parade of Flagellants with a battle cathedral]]
	'''War Wagons''', also called '''War Altars''' or '''Battle Altars''', are chariots or wagons that have been souped up into mobile battle towers, holy altars, or magical artillery pieces.		'''War Wagons''', also called '''War Altars''' or '''Battle Altars''', are chariots or wagons that have been souped up into mobile battle towers, holy altars, or magical artillery pieces.

			===Classic War Wagon===
	<gallery>		<gallery>
	~~War wagon 1.png\|a parade of Flaglents with a battle cathedral~~
	War wagon 2.jpg\|how [[Nuln]] field test their gear		War wagon 2.jpg\|how [[Nuln]] field test their gear
	~~War altar.png\|Altar of Sigmar~~
	~~Luminark.png\|Feel relieved that the Empire's tax money is going to giant medieval lasers.~~
	~~Hurricanum.png\|[[Lizardmen\|We don't have orbital lasers]] but clouds are the next best thing.~~
	War wagon model.jpg		War wagon model.jpg
	War wagon crew.jpg		War wagon crew.jpg
			</gallery>
			===War Altar of Sigmar===
			<gallery>
			War altar.png
	War altar model.jpg		War altar model.jpg
			</gallery>
			===Celestial Hurricanum===
			<gallery>
			Hurricanum.png\|[[Lizardmen\|We don't have orbital lasers]] but clouds are the next best thing.
			Hurricanum model.jpg
			</gallery>
			===Luminark of Hysh===
			<gallery>
			Luminark.png\|Feel relieved that the Empire's tax money is going to giant medieval lasers.
	Luminark model.webp		Luminark model.webp
	~~Hurricanum model.jpg~~
	</gallery>		</gallery>

1d4chan>Nubnuber at 01:48, 12 January 2021

2021-01-12T01:48:28Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:48, 12 January 2021
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	{{Whfb-stub~~}}{{NeedsImages~~}}		{{Whfb-stub}}
	[[Category:Kislev]]		[[Category:Kislev]]
	[[Category:The Empire]]		[[Category:The Empire]]

1d4chan>Nubnuber at 02:47, 11 January 2021

2021-01-11T02:47:12Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:47, 11 January 2021
Line 2:		Line 2:
	[[Category:Kislev]]		[[Category:Kislev]]
	[[Category:The Empire]]		[[Category:The Empire]]
	'''War Wagons''', also called '''War Altars''' or '''Battle Altars''', are chariots or wagons that have been souped up into mobile battle towers, holy ~~alters~~, or magical artillery pieces.		'''War Wagons''', also called '''War Altars''' or '''Battle Altars''', are chariots or wagons that have been souped up into mobile battle towers, holy altars, or magical artillery pieces.
	<gallery>		<gallery>
	War wagon 1.png\|a parade of Flaglents with a battle cathedral		War wagon 1.png\|a parade of Flaglents with a battle cathedral
	War wagon 2.jpg\|how [[Nuln]] field test their gear		War wagon 2.jpg\|how [[Nuln]] field test their gear
	War altar.png\|~~Alter~~ of Sigmar		War altar.png\|Altar of Sigmar
	Luminark.png\|Feel ~~Relved~~ that the Empire's tax money is going to giant medieval lasers.		Luminark.png\|Feel relieved that the Empire's tax money is going to giant medieval lasers.
	Hurricanum.png\|[[Lizardmen\|We don't have orbital lasers]] but clouds are the next best thing.		Hurricanum.png\|[[Lizardmen\|We don't have orbital lasers]] but clouds are the next best thing.
	War wagon model.jpg		War wagon model.jpg