Warhammer: The Old World - Revision history

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2023-06-24T03:59:59Z

144 revisions imported

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2023-06-19T14:46:54Z

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2A02:1808:84:15DC:853A:FA2B:9440:973 at 19:06, 24 May 2023

2023-05-24T19:06:23Z

1d4chan>Stephenlucas600: /* The Factions */ they did say this is the main player in the initial book release and it will be covering several major events pre-war.

2023-05-24T14:00:13Z

The Factions: they did say this is the main player in the initial book release and it will be covering several major events pre-war.

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:00, 24 May 2023
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	* [[Warriors of Chaos]]		* [[Warriors of Chaos]]

	That said, everyone knows that there were far more than just these factions, but GW's excuse was merely focusing on the main forces involved in the Great War (in which case, is Kislev being booked as a subfaction for the Empire?). As such, they promised free PDF army lists like [[Horus Heresy]] had done with the Imperialis Militia.		That said, everyone knows that there were far more than just these factions, but GW's excuse was merely focusing on the main forces involved in the Great War (in which case, is Kislev being booked as a subfaction for the Empire?) (at least for now in part 1 of the Great War, likely focused pre-war events like the rear end of the age of three emperors, [[Morghur]]'s big resurrection party, Asavar Kul mustering forces and the [[war of sand and snow]]). As such, they promised free PDF army lists like [[Horus Heresy]] had done with the Imperialis Militia.
	*[[Chaos Dwarfs]] - GW are cheapasses who won't make modern-day iterations of this neglected army. Count your blessings if the old FW stuff enters MtO.		*[[Chaos Dwarfs]] - GW are cheapasses who won't make modern-day iterations of this neglected army. Count your blessings if the old FW stuff enters MtO.
	*[[Daemons of Chaos]] - Which is odd since wouldn't they be better served as an allied faction for the WoC?		*[[Daemons of Chaos]] - Which is odd since wouldn't they be better served as an allied faction for the WoC?
	*[[Dark Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)\|Dark Elves]] - Presumably since they weren't involved with the major struggle framing this setting as they were mostly busy with their own invasion of Ulthuan.		*[[Dark Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)\|Dark Elves]] - Presumably, since they weren't involved with the major struggle framing this setting as they were mostly busy with their own invasion of Ulthuan.
	*[[Grand Cathay]] - Seemingly shelved until post-release or something. Sounds bad but remember that unlike all the other factions who have old models that can be brought back, these guys need to be made from scratch.		*[[Grand Cathay]] - Seemingly shelved until post-release or something. Sounds bad but remember that, unlike all the other factions who have old models that can be brought back, these guys need to be made from scratch.
	*[[Lizardmen]] - Who are presumably too busy arguing over which Plaques are canon to bother with the Warmbloods		*[[Lizardmen]] - Who are presumably too busy arguing over which Plaques are canon to bother with the Warmbloods
	*[[Ogre Kingdoms]] - [[Greasus Goldtooth\|Greasus]] wasn't born yet at that point, which means they are even more isolated and primitive.		*[[Ogre Kingdoms]] - [[Greasus Goldtooth\|Greasus]] wasn't born yet at that point, which means they are even more isolated and primitive.

1d4chan>Le0901: /* Core Armies and Legacy Armies */

2023-05-23T23:07:37Z

Core Armies and Legacy Armies

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:07, 23 May 2023
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	And while it is good that many of the discontinued Elf and Dwarf kits will be returning (alongside presumably new kits), this announcement has created an feeling that The Old World might be a bit half-arsed, which it really can't afford to do, if it want's to win back the fantasy player base		And while it is good that many of the discontinued Elf and Dwarf kits will be returning (alongside presumably new kits), this announcement has created an feeling that The Old World might be a bit half-arsed, which it really can't afford to do, if it want's to win back the fantasy player base

			====A More Positive View====
			[[file:1684869319076923.jpg\|thumb\|left\|400px\|/TG/'s guide to budgeting.]]
			The lack of focus on certain factions may make sense by GW as they either are already available through other ranges or because this specific narrative is going to be more focused on a set few factions to see if they sell well. Keep in mind that every army is going to take up shelf and storage space at [[Forgeworld]] and [[Games Workshop]], so redundant packaging and armies that have a lot of crossover with [[Age of Sigmar]] may end up being detrimental to the company. Instead, it's likely these factions may be added to the Old World as their ranges get updated and old models need to be sent elsewhere. These models are still available so if the Old World is financially as successful as the Horus Heresy or other specialist games could mean we see old factions have new rules as new campaigns and editions of the game release. The fact [[Kislev]] will have to show up due to the time period of the game should mean that other events like the Dark Elf's invasion of Ulthaun during this time period will likely also be supported, though they will need more time and funds to update the armies in question.

			If anything, old ranges still being supported with rules instead of being [[squatted\|silently squatted]] should mean that they're not being forgotten about. Does it suck? Yes, but there is a silver lining here.

	==Reaction and the Fantasy player base==		==Reaction and the Fantasy player base==

1d4chan>SIRUNKLYDUNK: /* Core Armies and Legacy Armies */

2023-05-23T22:12:10Z

Core Armies and Legacy Armies

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:12, 23 May 2023
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	In addition to all that it was hammered home again that AOS models will get no rule support in Old World. Putting to bed any hopes that some of the newer AoS models could be used to fill in some gaps in legacy armies. Which honestly isn't surprising but still some had held out hope they might get maybe a PDF style addition.		In addition to all that it was hammered home again that AOS models will get no rule support in Old World. Putting to bed any hopes that some of the newer AoS models could be used to fill in some gaps in legacy armies. Which honestly isn't surprising but still some had held out hope they might get maybe a PDF style addition.

	Some explanation was given to why certain factions are not getting the same treatment, as the [[Lizardmen]] and [[Dark Elves]] "live an ocean away", the [[Skaven]] are having a civil war and not doing anything to annoy the surface, the [[Von Carstein]]s are all dead, the [[Ogre Kingdoms]] and [[Chaos Dwarfs]] are on the other side of a mountain range and don't get about much and the Chaos Daemons are having a bit of trouble forming armies due to a low influx of magic from the polar gates. All of which are not great arguments when you remember that there are Lizardmen in the [[Southlands]], the Dark Elves are pirates and have raided the Old Worlds coasts before, their are other Vampires that are not Von Carsteins who would build armies and cause trouble, Chaos Daemons could be rolled into an army with Chaos Warriors and if [[Cathay]] does get an army and models, then the Ogres and Chaos Dwarfs are literally sitting between the Empire and Cathay, so would take an active role in fighting armies and traders that are crossing the [[Dark Lands]] and [[Mountains of Mourn]].		Some explanation was given to why certain factions are not getting the same treatment, as the [[Lizardmen]] and [[Dark Elves]] "live an ocean away", the [[Skaven]] are having a civil war and not doing anything to annoy the surface, the [[Von Carstein]]s are all dead, the [[Ogre Kingdoms]] and [[Chaos Dwarfs]] are on the other side of a mountain range and don't get about much and the Chaos Daemons are having a bit of trouble forming armies due to a low influx of magic from the polar gates. All of which are not great arguments when you remember that there are Lizardmen in the [[Southlands]], the Dark Elves are pirates and have raided the Old Worlds coasts before, their are other Vampires that are not Von Carsteins who would build armies and cause trouble, Chaos Daemons could be rolled into an army with Chaos Warriors, the Skaven are, well, the Skaven so they don't need a justification to be anywhere and if [[Cathay]] does get an army and models, then the Ogres and Chaos Dwarfs are literally sitting between the Empire and Cathay, so would take an active role in fighting armies and traders that are crossing the [[Dark Lands]] and [[Mountains of Mourn]].

	And while it is good that many of the discontinued Elf and Dwarf kits will be returning (alongside presumably new kits), this announcement has created an feeling that The Old World might be a bit half-arsed, which it really can't afford to do, if it want's to win back the fantasy player base		And while it is good that many of the discontinued Elf and Dwarf kits will be returning (alongside presumably new kits), this announcement has created an feeling that The Old World might be a bit half-arsed, which it really can't afford to do, if it want's to win back the fantasy player base

1d4chan>Gbc343: /* Core Armies and Legacy Armies */

2023-05-23T22:09:29Z

Core Armies and Legacy Armies

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:09, 23 May 2023
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	===Core Armies and Legacy Armies===		===Core Armies and Legacy Armies===
	In May 2023, this was further expanded on with some additional information that certain armies are considered core factions (read; getting army books and support) and non-core/legacy factions ([[Fail\|read; getting PDF's and getting jack shit else]]). The Core factions at games release will be the Empire, High Elves, Wood Elves, Bretonnia, Dwarfs, Chaos Warriors, Tomb Kings, Orcs and Goblins and the Beastmen, being split into "good" and "evil" factions (which upset some people even though this has been a thing Warhammer Fantasy did since 5th edition). This has been a [[Skub\|controversial decision]] as it has pretty much cut the number of supported armies in half, and while factions like [[Lizardmen]] were not expected to get rules to begin with, the hope had been that the setting would start in the Old World and the move around and look at other factions via-supplements, which now seems very unlikely for a good few years, if ever. All of this has also thrown into question the status of [[Kislev]] and [[Cathay]], who were thought to be core factions due to updates on TOW actually going into detail about them, but the only word on them so far has been along the lines of "yeah, probably at some point."		In May 2023, this was further expanded on with some additional information that certain armies are considered core factions (read; getting army books and support) and non-core/legacy factions ([[Fail\|read; getting PDF's and getting jack shit else]]). The Core factions at games release will be the Empire, High Elves, Wood Elves, Bretonnia, Dwarfs, Chaos Warriors, Tomb Kings, Orcs and Goblins and the Beastmen, being split into "good" and "evil" factions (which upset some people even though this has been a thing Warhammer Fantasy did since 5th edition). This has been a [[Skub\|controversial decision]] as it has pretty much cut the number of supported armies in half, and while factions like [[Lizardmen]] were not expected to get rules to begin with, the hope had been that the setting would start in the Old World and the move around and look at other factions via-supplements, which now seems very unlikely for a good few years, if ever. All of this has also thrown into question the status of [[Kislev]] and [[Cathay]], who were thought to be core factions due to updates on TOW actually going into detail about them, but the only word on them so far has been along the lines of "yeah, probably at some point."

			In addition to all that it was hammered home again that AOS models will get no rule support in Old World. Putting to bed any hopes that some of the newer AoS models could be used to fill in some gaps in legacy armies. Which honestly isn't surprising but still some had held out hope they might get maybe a PDF style addition.

	Some explanation was given to why certain factions are not getting the same treatment, as the [[Lizardmen]] and [[Dark Elves]] "live an ocean away", the [[Skaven]] are having a civil war and not doing anything to annoy the surface, the [[Von Carstein]]s are all dead, the [[Ogre Kingdoms]] and [[Chaos Dwarfs]] are on the other side of a mountain range and don't get about much and the Chaos Daemons are having a bit of trouble forming armies due to a low influx of magic from the polar gates. All of which are not great arguments when you remember that there are Lizardmen in the [[Southlands]], the Dark Elves are pirates and have raided the Old Worlds coasts before, their are other Vampires that are not Von Carsteins who would build armies and cause trouble, Chaos Daemons could be rolled into an army with Chaos Warriors and if [[Cathay]] does get an army and models, then the Ogres and Chaos Dwarfs are literally sitting between the Empire and Cathay, so would take an active role in fighting armies and traders that are crossing the [[Dark Lands]] and [[Mountains of Mourn]].		Some explanation was given to why certain factions are not getting the same treatment, as the [[Lizardmen]] and [[Dark Elves]] "live an ocean away", the [[Skaven]] are having a civil war and not doing anything to annoy the surface, the [[Von Carstein]]s are all dead, the [[Ogre Kingdoms]] and [[Chaos Dwarfs]] are on the other side of a mountain range and don't get about much and the Chaos Daemons are having a bit of trouble forming armies due to a low influx of magic from the polar gates. All of which are not great arguments when you remember that there are Lizardmen in the [[Southlands]], the Dark Elves are pirates and have raided the Old Worlds coasts before, their are other Vampires that are not Von Carsteins who would build armies and cause trouble, Chaos Daemons could be rolled into an army with Chaos Warriors and if [[Cathay]] does get an army and models, then the Ogres and Chaos Dwarfs are literally sitting between the Empire and Cathay, so would take an active role in fighting armies and traders that are crossing the [[Dark Lands]] and [[Mountains of Mourn]].

1d4chan>SabbatMartyr: /* Tomb Kings vs Bretonnia */

2023-05-23T21:55:35Z

Tomb Kings vs Bretonnia

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:55, 23 May 2023
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	*There won't be a starter set for TOW, however there may still be a boxed set with 2 armies (the difference being a starter set has a rule book and other stuff to get started in the age, and boxed sets are just two armies sold in one box), and there will most likely be Army/Battalion boxes so people can get started on new armies or as entry points for new players.		*There won't be a starter set for TOW, however there may still be a boxed set with 2 armies (the difference being a starter set has a rule book and other stuff to get started in the age, and boxed sets are just two armies sold in one box), and there will most likely be Army/Battalion boxes so people can get started on new armies or as entry points for new players.
	**The game will be a bit harder for new players to get into, but not impossible and the main target audience is Warhammer Fantasy players.		**The game will be a bit harder for new players to get into, but not impossible and the main target audience is Warhammer Fantasy players.
	*The game will be compatible with 8th edition ~~Wahammer~~ Fantasy armies and armies that don't get army books straight away will get PDF's after the games launch.		*The game will be compatible with 8th edition Warhammer Fantasy armies and armies that don't get army books straight away will get PDF's after the games launch.
	*The updated base sizes will be announced before the game releases.		*The updated base sizes will be announced before the game releases.
	**Further to this, when asked what the best way to prepare for TOW was, the answer was "paint you models".		**Further to this, when asked what the best way to prepare for TOW was, the answer was "paint you models".
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	*Stuff like AoS specific armies and models like Stormcast, Idoneth deepkin and the new Cities of Sigmar models are not made to be compatible with TOW, and are not getting any rules for TOW, and this will also work vice versa with Old World specific armies and models like Bretonnia, not being designed to be used in AoS.		*Stuff like AoS specific armies and models like Stormcast, Idoneth deepkin and the new Cities of Sigmar models are not made to be compatible with TOW, and are not getting any rules for TOW, and this will also work vice versa with Old World specific armies and models like Bretonnia, not being designed to be used in AoS.
	**This is probably for the best as the 2 player groups still don't like each other and have not much except animosity for the other games models (despite some people trying to get them to hold hands singing "Kumbaya"), though converting TOW models for AoS will be much easier than converting AoS models for TOW.		**This is probably for the best as the 2 player groups still don't like each other and have not much except animosity for the other games models (despite some people trying to get them to hold hands singing "Kumbaya"), though converting TOW models for AoS will be much easier than converting AoS models for TOW.

			===Core Armies and Legacy Armies===
			In May 2023, this was further expanded on with some additional information that certain armies are considered core factions (read; getting army books and support) and non-core/legacy factions ([[Fail\|read; getting PDF's and getting jack shit else]]). The Core factions at games release will be the Empire, High Elves, Wood Elves, Bretonnia, Dwarfs, Chaos Warriors, Tomb Kings, Orcs and Goblins and the Beastmen, being split into "good" and "evil" factions (which upset some people even though this has been a thing Warhammer Fantasy did since 5th edition). This has been a [[Skub\|controversial decision]] as it has pretty much cut the number of supported armies in half, and while factions like [[Lizardmen]] were not expected to get rules to begin with, the hope had been that the setting would start in the Old World and the move around and look at other factions via-supplements, which now seems very unlikely for a good few years, if ever. All of this has also thrown into question the status of [[Kislev]] and [[Cathay]], who were thought to be core factions due to updates on TOW actually going into detail about them, but the only word on them so far has been along the lines of "yeah, probably at some point."

			Some explanation was given to why certain factions are not getting the same treatment, as the [[Lizardmen]] and [[Dark Elves]] "live an ocean away", the [[Skaven]] are having a civil war and not doing anything to annoy the surface, the [[Von Carstein]]s are all dead, the [[Ogre Kingdoms]] and [[Chaos Dwarfs]] are on the other side of a mountain range and don't get about much and the Chaos Daemons are having a bit of trouble forming armies due to a low influx of magic from the polar gates. All of which are not great arguments when you remember that there are Lizardmen in the [[Southlands]], the Dark Elves are pirates and have raided the Old Worlds coasts before, their are other Vampires that are not Von Carsteins who would build armies and cause trouble, Chaos Daemons could be rolled into an army with Chaos Warriors and if [[Cathay]] does get an army and models, then the Ogres and Chaos Dwarfs are literally sitting between the Empire and Cathay, so would take an active role in fighting armies and traders that are crossing the [[Dark Lands]] and [[Mountains of Mourn]].

			And while it is good that many of the discontinued Elf and Dwarf kits will be returning (alongside presumably new kits), this announcement has created an feeling that The Old World might be a bit half-arsed, which it really can't afford to do, if it want's to win back the fantasy player base

	==Reaction and the Fantasy player base==		==Reaction and the Fantasy player base==

1d4chan>SIRUNKLYDUNK: /* The Factions */

2023-05-23T20:27:04Z

The Factions

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:27, 23 May 2023
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	*[[Daemons of Chaos]] - Which is odd since wouldn't they be better served as an allied faction for the WoC?		*[[Daemons of Chaos]] - Which is odd since wouldn't they be better served as an allied faction for the WoC?
	*[[Dark Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)\|Dark Elves]] - Presumably since they weren't involved with the major struggle framing this setting as they were mostly busy with their own invasion of Ulthuan.		*[[Dark Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)\|Dark Elves]] - Presumably since they weren't involved with the major struggle framing this setting as they were mostly busy with their own invasion of Ulthuan.
	*[[Grand Cathay]] - Seemingly shelved until post-release or something.		*[[Grand Cathay]] - Seemingly shelved until post-release or something. Sounds bad but remember that unlike all the other factions who have old models that can be brought back, these guys need to be made from scratch.
	*[[Lizardmen]] - Who are presumably too busy arguing over which Plaques are canon to bother with the Warmbloods		*[[Lizardmen]] - Who are presumably too busy arguing over which Plaques are canon to bother with the Warmbloods
	*[[Ogre Kingdoms]] - [[Greasus Goldtooth\|Greasus]] wasn't born yet at that point, which means they are even more isolated and primitive.		*[[Ogre Kingdoms]] - [[Greasus Goldtooth\|Greasus]] wasn't born yet at that point, which means they are even more isolated and primitive.

1d4chan>MiaoKobayashisDragonMaid: Lizardmen have spaceships and moving Temple-Fleets

2023-05-23T20:10:59Z

Lizardmen have spaceships and moving Temple-Fleets

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:10, 23 May 2023
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	*[[Dark Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)\|Dark Elves]] - Presumably since they weren't involved with the major struggle framing this setting as they were mostly busy with their own invasion of Ulthuan.		*[[Dark Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)\|Dark Elves]] - Presumably since they weren't involved with the major struggle framing this setting as they were mostly busy with their own invasion of Ulthuan.
	*[[Grand Cathay]] - Seemingly shelved until post-release or something.		*[[Grand Cathay]] - Seemingly shelved until post-release or something.
	*[[Lizardmen]] - Who ~~haven’t figured out what Boats~~ are ~~yet so can’t get~~ to the ~~Old World en masse even if they wanted to.~~		*[[Lizardmen]] - Who are presumably too busy arguing over which Plaques are canon to bother with the Warmbloods
	*[[Ogre Kingdoms]] - [[Greasus Goldtooth\|Greasus]] wasn't born yet at that point, which means they are even more isolated and primitive.		*[[Ogre Kingdoms]] - [[Greasus Goldtooth\|Greasus]] wasn't born yet at that point, which means they are even more isolated and primitive.
	*[[Skaven]] - Still in hiding after [[Mandred Skavenslayer]] beat them back into the sewers.		*[[Skaven]] - Still in hiding after [[Mandred Skavenslayer]] beat them back into the sewers.

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:06, 24 May 2023
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	'''Warhammer: The Old World''' is a tabletop wargame and spiritual successor to [[Warhammer Fantasy]], that [[GW]] is in the current process of creating.		'''Warhammer: The Old World''' is a tabletop wargame and spiritual successor to [[Warhammer Fantasy]], that [[GW]] is in the current process of creating.

	The game is confirmed to be a 28mm scale rank and file game, with things taken from almost every edition of Warhammer fantasy (3rd-8th, as 1st and 2nd are these RPG/wargame hybrids), essentially meaning the game is almost certainly going to be Warhammer Fantasy 9th edition with a fancy name. It's unknown what really brought around the decision to make the game, whether it was the general hatred and disdain that Age of Sigmar has never been able to shrug off, [[Total War: Warhammer]] and [[Vermintide]] doing so well, or GW realising there was an entire audience of wargamers that weren't being tapped or for some other reason known only to god, it looks like the sun will rise upon Warhammer Fantasy once again. The biggest hope for many a remaining Fantasy fans is that The Old World revives and updates factions squatted during the [[End Times]] and [[Age of Sigmar]], like the [[Tomb Kings]], [[Bretonnia]] and [[Dwarfs (Warhammer Fantasy)\|Dwarfs]], with a few squatted factions being hinted or out right shown off as of writing.		The game is confirmed to be a 28mm scale rank and file game, with things taken from almost every edition of Warhammer fantasy (3rd-8th, as 1st and 2nd are these RPG/wargame hybrids), essentially meaning the game is almost certainly going to be Warhammer Fantasy 9th edition with a fancy name. It's unknown what really brought around the decision to make the game, whether it was the general hatred and disdain that Age of Sigmar has never been able to shrug off, [[Total War: Warhammer]] and [[Vermintide]] doing so well, or GW realising there was an entire audience of wargamers that weren't being tapped or for some other reason known only to god, it looks like the sun will rise upon Warhammer Fantasy once again. The biggest hope for many a remaining Fantasy fans is that The Old World revives and updates factions squatted during the [[End Times]] and [[Age of Sigmar]], like the [[Tomb Kings]], [[Bretonnia]] and [[Dwarfs (Warhammer Fantasy)\|Dwarfs]], with a few squatted factions being hinted or out right shown off as of writing.

	While initially marketed as "The [[Horus Heresy]] for [[Age of Sigmar]]", it seems the more accurate statement would be "The Horus Heresy for Warhammer Fantasy", as the game is set during the Age of the Three Emperors which was the time period when a most of the events and conflicts that would shape almost every race in Warhammer Fantasy occurred, similar to what the Heresy did for the [[Imperium of Man\|Imperium]]. This is coming at a time when the Horus Heresy series as a whole is beginning to wrap up with its final act in the Siege of Terra, which will begin to free up a significant portion of Black Library and GW staff to move on to the next big project.		While initially marketed as "The [[Horus Heresy]] for [[Age of Sigmar]]", it seems the more accurate statement would be "The Horus Heresy for Warhammer Fantasy", as the game is set during the Age of the Three Emperors which was the time period when a most of the events and conflicts that would shape almost every race in Warhammer Fantasy occurred, similar to what the Heresy did for the [[Imperium of Man\|Imperium]]. This is coming at a time when the Horus Heresy series as a whole is beginning to wrap up with its final act in the Siege of Terra, which will begin to free up a significant portion of Black Library and GW staff to move on to the next big project.
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	This has been a [[Skub\|slightly controversial]] announcement as the units' early concept art doesn't quite match the expectations of Warhammer Fantasy's generally-grounded art style (at least compared to [[Age of Sigmar\|other games]]). Plus the idea of magically-enchanted weapons being used by entire units (albeit for an elite guard) is a bit of a weird thing to see outside of the [[High Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)\|three]] [[Dark Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)\|Elven]] [[Wood Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)\|factions]] or [[Bretonnia\|grail knights]], although the degenerate [[Ogre Kingdoms\|yhetees]] set somewhat of a precedent for magic ice-weapons in particular. Oh, and [[/pol/\|/pol/tards]] and [[SJW\|tumblrite snowflakes]] started arguing because they were [[-4 Str\|women]] (ignoring the fact every magic user in Kislev is one) but that was to be expected and doesn't factor in because neither of them are going to buy models anyway. Time will tell how this unit is properly received when the models actually come out.		This has been a [[Skub\|slightly controversial]] announcement as the units' early concept art doesn't quite match the expectations of Warhammer Fantasy's generally-grounded art style (at least compared to [[Age of Sigmar\|other games]]). Plus the idea of magically-enchanted weapons being used by entire units (albeit for an elite guard) is a bit of a weird thing to see outside of the [[High Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)\|three]] [[Dark Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)\|Elven]] [[Wood Elves (Warhammer Fantasy)\|factions]] or [[Bretonnia\|grail knights]], although the degenerate [[Ogre Kingdoms\|yhetees]] set somewhat of a precedent for magic ice-weapons in particular. Oh, and [[/pol/\|/pol/tards]] and [[SJW\|tumblrite snowflakes]] started arguing because they were [[-4 Str\|women]] (ignoring the fact every magic user in Kislev is one) but that was to be expected and doesn't factor in because neither of them are going to buy models anyway. Time will tell how this unit is properly received when the models actually come out.

	The announcement also plays nicely into the idea that the Old World will be seeing the Age of Three Emperors and the Great War against [[Chaos]] as it's starting point, due to Kislevs involvement in fighting Chaos and the effect the period had on the countries history. Not to mention the technological stagnation of Kislev means that wherever in the timeline future parts of ~~ToW~~ take place in, Kislev will remain relevant if the Empire is involved.		The announcement also plays nicely into the idea that the Old World will be seeing the Age of Three Emperors and the Great War against [[Chaos]] as it's starting point, due to Kislevs involvement in fighting Chaos and the effect the period had on the countries history. Not to mention the technological stagnation of Kislev means that wherever in the timeline future parts of TOW take place in, Kislev will remain relevant if the Empire is involved.

	With a second showcase of concept art revealing bear cavalry (with the direct implication that bears will also be character mount options), Kislev may in fact be one of the starter factions. While it's very early to be speculating about starter boxes, a starter set with Kislev fighting the Warriors of Chaos would be a really nice box to see.		With a second showcase of concept art revealing bear cavalry (with the direct implication that bears will also be character mount options), Kislev may in fact be one of the starter factions. While it's very early to be speculating about starter boxes, a starter set with Kislev fighting the Warriors of Chaos would be a really nice box to see.

	'''Update 1''': On the 3rd of February, 2021 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAr7yUlM0Po/ Total War Warhammer 3 was announced with Kislev being one of the starting races]. In it we see both the new Ice Guard and Bear Cav, and a [https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/02/03/watch-kislev-battle-a-bloodthirster-in-the-first-trailer-for-total-war-warhammer-iii/ post on the Warhammer community] confirmed that Creative Assembly had been working with GW and using the concept art of both these units for the game. This had been theorised before the trailers release, but the confirmation now means that Total Warhammer 3 will act as a sort of marketing device for ~~ToW~~, and that units we see in game will most likely be introduced to TOW as well. [[Cathay]] was also confirmed for the game meaning that it may also be introduced to ToW as an army as well, which would be a very interesting turn of events. Also the Ice Guard look a lot better than they did in the Concept art so yay, the models will likely look better as well.		'''Update 1''': On the 3rd of February, 2021 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAr7yUlM0Po/ Total War Warhammer 3 was announced with Kislev being one of the starting races]. In it we see both the new Ice Guard and Bear Cav, and a [https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/02/03/watch-kislev-battle-a-bloodthirster-in-the-first-trailer-for-total-war-warhammer-iii/ post on the Warhammer community] confirmed that Creative Assembly had been working with GW and using the concept art of both these units for the game. This had been theorised before the trailers release, but the confirmation now means that Total Warhammer 3 will act as a sort of marketing device for TOW, and that units we see in game will most likely be introduced to TOW as well. [[Cathay]] was also confirmed for the game meaning that it may also be introduced to ToW as an army as well, which would be a very interesting turn of events. Also the Ice Guard look a lot better than they did in the Concept art so yay, the models will likely look better as well.

	'''Update 2''': As of the 13th of May, a poor-resolution map of Kislev's borders in TOW has been unveiled. The capital's heraldry bears (hue) the name "Romanoff", which may refer either to Alexis Romanoff who was the Tzar of Kislev during the Great War against Chaos, or his predecessor, likely a grandfather or great grandfather with newer information available. In addition the Kislevite borders now stretch all the way across Zorn Uzkul to the edge of the "Nation of the Hobgobla-Khans", indicating that the older fluff of the Kislevite colonies are being reintroduced in some way. This is also impressive as it makes Kislev much larger than its previous record, when the Wheatlands were canon in older editions. The safe bet is that when the TOW storyline comes up to the Great War Against Chaos, the colonial oblasts will burn first.		'''Update 2''': As of the 13th of May, a poor-resolution map of Kislev's borders in TOW has been unveiled. The capital's heraldry bears (hue) the name "Romanoff", which may refer either to Alexis Romanoff who was the Tzar of Kislev during the Great War against Chaos, or his predecessor, likely a grandfather or great grandfather with newer information available. In addition the Kislevite borders now stretch all the way across Zorn Uzkul to the edge of the "Nation of the Hobgobla-Khans", indicating that the older fluff of the Kislevite colonies are being reintroduced in some way. This is also impressive as it makes Kislev much larger than its previous record, when the Wheatlands were canon in older editions. The safe bet is that when the TOW storyline comes up to the Great War Against Chaos, the colonial oblasts will burn first.
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	In May 2023, this was further expanded on with some additional information that certain armies are considered core factions (read; getting army books and support) and non-core/legacy factions ([[Fail\|read; getting PDF's and getting jack shit else]]). The Core factions at games release will be the Empire, High Elves, Wood Elves, Bretonnia, Dwarfs, Chaos Warriors, Tomb Kings, Orcs and Goblins and the Beastmen, being split into "good" and "evil" factions (which upset some people even though this has been a thing Warhammer Fantasy did since 5th edition). This has been a [[Skub\|controversial decision]] as it has pretty much cut the number of supported armies in half, and while factions like [[Lizardmen]] were not expected to get rules to begin with, the hope had been that the setting would start in the Old World and the move around and look at other factions via-supplements, which now seems very unlikely for a good few years, if ever. All of this has also thrown into question the status of [[Kislev]] and [[Cathay]], who were thought to be core factions due to updates on TOW actually going into detail about them, but the only word on them so far has been along the lines of "yeah, probably at some point."		In May 2023, this was further expanded on with some additional information that certain armies are considered core factions (read; getting army books and support) and non-core/legacy factions ([[Fail\|read; getting PDF's and getting jack shit else]]). The Core factions at games release will be the Empire, High Elves, Wood Elves, Bretonnia, Dwarfs, Chaos Warriors, Tomb Kings, Orcs and Goblins and the Beastmen, being split into "good" and "evil" factions (which upset some people even though this has been a thing Warhammer Fantasy did since 5th edition). This has been a [[Skub\|controversial decision]] as it has pretty much cut the number of supported armies in half, and while factions like [[Lizardmen]] were not expected to get rules to begin with, the hope had been that the setting would start in the Old World and the move around and look at other factions via-supplements, which now seems very unlikely for a good few years, if ever. All of this has also thrown into question the status of [[Kislev]] and [[Cathay]], who were thought to be core factions due to updates on TOW actually going into detail about them, but the only word on them so far has been along the lines of "yeah, probably at some point."

	In addition to all that it was hammered home again that ~~AOS~~ models will get no rule support in Old World. Putting to bed any hopes that some of the newer AoS models could be used to fill in some gaps in legacy armies. Which honestly isn't surprising but still some had held out hope they might get maybe a PDF style addition.		In addition to all that it was hammered home again that AoS models will get no rule support in Old World. Putting to bed any hopes that some of the newer AoS models could be used to fill in some gaps in legacy armies. Which honestly isn't surprising but still some had held out hope they might get maybe a PDF style addition.

	Some explanation was given to why certain factions are not getting the same treatment, as the [[Lizardmen]] and [[Dark Elves]] "live an ocean away", the [[Skaven]] are having a civil war and not doing anything to annoy the surface, the [[Von Carstein]]s are all dead, the [[Ogre Kingdoms]] and [[Chaos Dwarfs]] are on the other side of a mountain range and don't get about much and the Chaos Daemons are having a bit of trouble forming armies due to a low influx of magic from the polar gates. All of which are not great arguments when you remember that there are Lizardmen in the [[Southlands]], the Dark Elves are pirates and have raided the Old Worlds coasts before, their are other Vampires that are not Von Carsteins who would build armies and cause trouble, Chaos Daemons could be rolled into an army with Chaos Warriors, the Skaven are, well, the Skaven so they don't need a justification to be anywhere and if [[Cathay]] does get an army and models, then the Ogres and Chaos Dwarfs are literally sitting between the Empire and Cathay, so would take an active role in fighting armies and traders that are crossing the [[Dark Lands]] and [[Mountains of Mourn]].		Some explanation was given to why certain factions are not getting the same treatment, as the [[Lizardmen]] and [[Dark Elves]] "live an ocean away", the [[Skaven]] are having a civil war and not doing anything to annoy the surface, the [[Von Carstein]]s are all dead, the [[Ogre Kingdoms]] and [[Chaos Dwarfs]] are on the other side of a mountain range and don't get about much and the Chaos Daemons are having a bit of trouble forming armies due to a low influx of magic from the polar gates. All of which are not great arguments when you remember that there are Lizardmen in the [[Southlands]], the Dark Elves are pirates and have raided the Old Worlds coasts before, their are other Vampires that are not Von Carsteins who would build armies and cause trouble, Chaos Daemons could be rolled into an army with Chaos Warriors, the Skaven are, well, the Skaven so they don't need a justification to be anywhere and if [[Cathay]] does get an army and models, then the Ogres and Chaos Dwarfs are literally sitting between the Empire and Cathay, so would take an active role in fighting armies and traders that are crossing the [[Dark Lands]] and [[Mountains of Mourn]].