Warhammer 40,000/10th Edition Tactics/Space Marines - Revision history

imported>Administrator: 478 revisions imported

2023-06-24T04:04:34Z

478 revisions imported

← Older revision	Revision as of 04:04, 24 June 2023
(No difference)

1d4chan>ThatOneBruvva: /* Chapter Unit Analysis */

2023-06-24T03:56:41Z

Chapter Unit Analysis

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:56, 24 June 2023
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	===[[White Scars]]===		===[[White Scars]]===
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	<div class="toccolours mw-collapsible mw-collapsed">		<div class="toccolours mw-collapsible mw-collapsed">
	[[File:Imperial Fists Livery.png\|100px\|left\|]]In the grim darkness of the far future, here is some placeholder text.		[[File:Imperial Fists Livery.png\|100px\|left\|]]In the grim darkness of the far future, here is some placeholder text.

1d4chan>ThatOneBruvva: /* Iron Hands */

2023-06-24T03:56:08Z

Iron Hands

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	<div class="toccolours mw-collapsible mw-collapsed">		<div class="toccolours mw-collapsible mw-collapsed">
	[[File:Iron Hands Livery.jpg\|100px\|left\|]]In the grim darkness of the far future, here is some placeholder text.		[[File:Iron Hands Livery.jpg\|100px\|left\|]]In the grim darkness of the far future, here is some placeholder text.




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	===[[Ultramarines]]===		===[[Ultramarines]]===

1d4chan>ThatOneBruvva: /* White Scars */

2023-06-24T03:55:44Z

White Scars

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	<div class="toccolours mw-collapsible mw-collapsed">		<div class="toccolours mw-collapsible mw-collapsed">
	[[File:White Scars Livery.png\|100px\|left\|]]In the grim darkness of the far future, here is some placeholder text.		[[File:White Scars Livery.png\|100px\|left\|]]In the grim darkness of the far future, here is some placeholder text.




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	===[[Space Wolves]]===		===[[Space Wolves]]===

1d4chan>ThatOneBruvva: /* Chapter Unit Analysis */

2023-06-24T03:55:01Z

Chapter Unit Analysis

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:55, 24 June 2023
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	<div class="toccolours mw-collapsible mw-collapsed">		<div class="toccolours mw-collapsible mw-collapsed">
	[[File:White Scars Livery.png\|100px\|left\|]]In the grim darkness of the far future, here is some placeholder text.		[[File:White Scars Livery.png\|100px\|left\|]]In the grim darkness of the far future, here is some placeholder text.



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	===[[Space Wolves]]===		===[[Space Wolves]]===
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	===[[Imperial Fists]]===		===[[Imperial Fists]]===
	<div class="toccolours mw-collapsible mw-collapsed">		<div class="toccolours mw-collapsible mw-collapsed">
	[[File:Imperial Fists Livery.png\|100px\|left\|]]In the grim darkness of the far future, here is some placeholder text.		[[File:Imperial Fists Livery.png\|100px\|left\|]]In the grim darkness of the far future, here is some placeholder text.




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	===[[Blood Angels]]===		===[[Blood Angels]]===
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	=====Walkers=====		=====Walkers=====
	*'''Death Company Dreadnought:'''		*'''Death Company Dreadnought:''' The Furioso Fists have 1 AP over the classic dreadfist, making them a bit better on tanks even before accounting for all the MWs you deal before fighting in melee. If you go fisting, take a Magna-Grapple to make things easier on yourself - You want to be fighting {{W40kKeyword\|Monsters}} and {{W40kKeyword\|Vehicles}}, so a +2 on charge rolls is vital at the cost of the {{W40kKeyword\|Smoke}} keyword. Taking the Blood Talons is only worth it for fighting infantry mobs. A helpful ability this dread gets is the ability to fight back if anyone tries to attack at any range.
	*'''Furioso Dreadnought:'''		**The underslung guns on your fists will offer some support, but you're going to be pressed for choices. Just by default, you only get a storm bolter on one fist while the other fist comes with an odd melta. The only alternatives you get for both are heavy flamers.
	*'''Librarian Dreadnought:'''		*'''Furioso Dreadnought:''' Comes with a Frag Cannon so you have a better gun to blow apart hordes at close range. That said, you can still go double-fisting if you want - after all, you're getting ''[Twin-Linked]'' for going full melee. Just beware that you lack the DC 6+ FNP.
			*'''Librarian Dreadnought:''' A Furioso Dread with one fist and a force halberd for a supporting attack - While a lot less powerful than the fist, it's capable of a lot more damage. If you want real psychic power, it has the Blood Lance power for a single shot that can ram through lighter tanks.
			**The Librarian Dread comes with two psychic buffs that make it better for support. One is a 6" bubble that gives everyone a 5+ FNP against mortal wounds and psychic powers, the other is a risky power that lets you redeploy one {{W40kKeyword\|Infantry}} squad within 12" anywhere on the board.
	</div>		</div>
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	===[[Iron Hands]]===		===[[Iron Hands]]===
	<div class="toccolours mw-collapsible mw-collapsed">		<div class="toccolours mw-collapsible mw-collapsed">
	[[File:Iron Hands Livery.jpg\|100px\|left\|]]In the grim darkness of the far future, here is some placeholder text.		[[File:Iron Hands Livery.jpg\|100px\|left\|]]In the grim darkness of the far future, here is some placeholder text.




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	===[[Ultramarines]]===		===[[Ultramarines]]===
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	===[[Salamanders]]===		===[[Salamanders]]===
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	===[[Raven Guard]]===		===[[Raven Guard]]===
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	===[[Black Templars]]===		===[[Black Templars]]===
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	*'''Black Templars Repulsor:'''		*'''Black Templars Repulsor:'''
	*'''Black Templars Repulsor Executioner:'''		*'''Black Templars Repulsor Executioner:'''

	</div>		</div>
	</div>		</div>


	===[[Deathwatch]]===		===[[Deathwatch]]===

1d4chan>ThatOneBruvva: /* Why Play Space Marines */

2023-06-24T00:48:07Z

Why Play Space Marines

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:48, 24 June 2023
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	*Basically agreed upon to be one of the best if not the absolute best army in the game to start with. They're easy to paint, cheap, and elite.		*Basically agreed upon to be one of the best if not the absolute best army in the game to start with. They're easy to paint, cheap, and elite.
	*As GW’s favorite baby, you will never be in short supply of cool models and strong units.		*As GW’s favorite baby, you will never be in short supply of cool models and strong units.
	*so many ~~Leaders~~ options and niche support buffing units, you can almost put any ability on your unit for maximize damage output.		*So many Leader options and niche support buffing units, you can almost put any ability on your unit for maximize damage output.

	===Cons===		===Cons===
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	*Bloat. While being spoiled for choice is certainly not a bad thing in of itself, it's not an exaggeration to say that your codex is crowded. Quite a few Space Marine units tend to step on each other's toes with some units simply outperforming other units wholesale. Even with the recent Legends sweep trimming a fair few of your more obscure selections down, you'll still have a lot to keep track of.		*Bloat. While being spoiled for choice is certainly not a bad thing in of itself, it's not an exaggeration to say that your codex is crowded. Quite a few Space Marine units tend to step on each other's toes with some units simply outperforming other units wholesale. Even with the recent Legends sweep trimming a fair few of your more obscure selections down, you'll still have a lot to keep track of.
	*While you are very solid in every category, you aren't going to beat a faction at something they specialize in. If you try to out melee the World Eaters or outshoot the T'au you are going to get humbled quickly.		*While you are very solid in every category, you aren't going to beat a faction at something they specialize in. If you try to out melee the World Eaters or outshoot the T'au you are going to get humbled quickly.
			*A lot of the really cool Heresy-era stuff, despite getting plastic kits, has bafflingly been relegated to Legends, meaning they're impossible to play with competitively.

	==Faction Rules==		==Faction Rules==

1d4chan>Zerghalo2: /* Characters */

2023-06-23T19:23:46Z

Characters

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:23, 23 June 2023
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	{\| class="wikitable" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; border: none;"		{\| class="wikitable" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; border: none;"
	\|+ Leaders by Led Units		\|+ Leaders by Led Units
	! scope=col \| Armor !! scope=col \| Squads !! scope=col \| Leaders ~~(exceptions) (unit-wide buffs)~~		! scope=col \| Armor !! scope=col \| Squads !! scope=col \| Leaders
	\|-		\|-
	\| Firstborn \|\|		\| Firstborn \|\|

1d4chan>Zerghalo2: /* Characters */ chart format

2023-06-23T19:23:17Z

Characters: chart format

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:23, 23 June 2023
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	*Vanguard Veteran Squad (w/o jump packs)		*Vanguard Veteran Squad (w/o jump packs)
	\|		\|
	* Captain ('''Rites of Battle''')		* Captain: '''Rites of Battle'''
	* Chaplain (+1 to Wound in Melee)		* Chaplain: +1 to Wound in Melee
	* Librarian (4++~~+ against Psychic Attacks~~, 4++)		* Librarian: 4++, FnP 4+ vs Psychic attacks
	* Lieutenant ('''Lethal Hits''' on all weapons, Shoot+Charge after Falling Back)		* Lieutenant: ''[Lethal Hits]'' on all weapons, Shoot+Charge after Falling Back
	* Techmarine (Tacticals only, plus Servitors)		* Techmarine (Tacticals only, plus Servitors)
	* Sanguinary Priest (~~Blood Angels, replaces~~ Command ~~Squad with Devastator~~ Squad) (5+++, -1AP in melee)		* {{W40kKeyword\|Blood Angels}} Sanguinary Priest (can join Devastator Squad but not Command Squad): 5+++, +1AP in melee
	\|-		\|-
	\| {{W40kKeyword\|Jump Pack}} \|\|		\| {{W40kKeyword\|Jump Pack}} \|\|
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	*Vanguard Veteran Squad with Jump Packs		*Vanguard Veteran Squad with Jump Packs
	\|		\|
	* Captain with Jump Pack ('''Rites of Battle''', +1S on the Charge)		* Captain with Jump Pack: '''Rites of Battle''', +1S on the Charge
	* Chaplain with Jump Pack (+1 to Wound in Melee)		* Chaplain with Jump Pack: +1 to Wound in Melee
	* Librarian with Jump Pack (4+~~++ against~~ Psychic Attacks, -1AP in melee)		* Librarian with Jump Pack: FnP 4+ vs Psychic Attacks, +1AP in melee
	* Sanguinary Priest with Jump Pack ~~(Blood Angels) (~~5++~~+, -~~1AP in melee)		* {{W40kKeyword\|Blood Angels}} Sanguinary Priest with Jump Pack: FnP 5+, +1AP in melee
	\|-		\|-
	\| {{W40kKeyword\|Mounted}} \|\|		\| {{W40kKeyword\|Mounted}} \|\|
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	* Outrider Squad		* Outrider Squad
	\|		\|
	* Captain on Bike ('''Rites of Battle''', '''Assault''~~' on~~ all ~~ranged weapons)~~		* Captain on Bike: '''Rites of Battle''', gives ''[Assault]'' to all guns
	* Chaplain on Bike (+1 to Wound in Melee, '''Devastating Wounds''' on all ~~ranged weapons~~ against 1 visible unit within 12")		* Chaplain on Bike: +1 to Wound in Melee, ''[Devastating Wounds]'' on all guns against 1 visible unit within 12"
	\|-		\|-
	\| {{W40kKeyword\|Terminator}} \|\|		\| {{W40kKeyword\|Terminator}} \|\|
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	*Terminator Squad		*Terminator Squad
	\|		\|
	* Ancient in Terminator Armour (+1 OC, +1 to hit while below SS, +1 to Wound while below ~~HS)~~		* Ancient in Terminator Armour: +1 OC, +1 to hit while below starting strength, +1 to Wound while below half strength
	* Captain in Terminator Armour ('''Rites of Battle''', Re-roll Charges)		* Captain in Terminator Armour: '''Rites of Battle''', Re-roll Charges
	* Chaplain in Terminator Armour (+1 to Wound in Melee, 4+~~++ against~~ MWs)		* Chaplain in Terminator Armour: +1 to Wound in Melee, FnP 4+ vs MWs
	* Librarian in Terminator Armour (4+~~++ against~~ Psychic Attacks, '''Sustained Hits 1''' on all weapons)		* Librarian in Terminator Armour: FnP 4+ vs Psychic Attacks, ''[Sustained Hits 1]'' on all weapons
	* ~~Lieutenant in Terminator Armour~~ ("Deathwing Strikemaster~~" for Dark Angels, "~~Wolf Guard Battle Leader in Terminator Armour~~" for Space Wolves) ('~~''Lethal Hits''' on all weapons)		* ({{W40kKeyword\|Dark Angels}} Deathwing Strikemaster: ''[Lethal Hits]'' on all weapons
			*{{W40kKeyword\|Space wolves}} Wolf Guard Battle Leader in Terminator Armour: ''[Lethal Hits]'' on all weapons
	\|-		\|-
	\| {{W40kKeyword\|Tacticus}} (Primaris) \|\|		\| {{W40kKeyword\|Tacticus}} (Primaris) \|\|
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	* Sternguard Veteran Squad		* Sternguard Veteran Squad
	\|		\|
	* Bladeguard Ancient (Bladeguard Veterans only) (+1 OC, 1/battle +1A to all melee weapons)		* Bladeguard Ancient (Bladeguard Veterans only): +1 OC, 1/battle +1A to all melee weapons
	* Judiciar (~~Bladeguard Veterans,~~ can't lead Hellblasters) ('''Fights First''')		* Judiciar (can't lead Desolators or Hellblasters): '''Fights First'''
	* Primaris Ancient (~~Desolation Squad~~) (+1 OC)		* Primaris Ancient (can't lead Desolators): +1 OC
	* Primaris Apothecary (~~Desolation Squad~~) (Return 1 destroyed model per round)		* Primaris Apothecary (can't lead Desolators): Return 1 destroyed model per round
	* Primaris Captain (Bladeguard Veterans) ('''Rites of Battle''')		* Primaris Captain (Bladeguard Veterans): '''Rites of Battle'''
	** Marshal (~~nerfed version for Black Templars~~, ~~no Bladeguard/Desolation and no~~ Hellblasters)		**{{W40kKeyword\|Black Templars}} Marshal (can't lead Bladeguard, Desolators or Hellblasters): '''Rites of Battle'''
	* Primaris Chaplain (~~Bladeguard Veterans~~) (+1 to Wound in Melee)		* Primaris Chaplain (can't lead Desolators): +1 to Wound in Melee
	* Primaris Company Champion (~~Bladeguard Veterans,~~ can't lead Hellblasters) (+1 to Advance and Charge, Heroic Intervention for 0 CP even if already used)		* Primaris Company Champion (can't lead Desolators or Hellblasters): +1 to Advance and Charge, Heroic Intervention for 0 CP even if already used)
	* Primaris Librarian (~~Desolation Squad~~) (4+~~++ against~~ Psychic Attacks, 4++)		* Primaris Librarian (can't lead Desolators): FnP 4+ vs Psychic Attacks, 4++.
	* Primaris Lieutenant (~~Bladeguard Veterans~~) ('''Lethal Hits''' on all weapons, Shoot+Charge after Falling Back)		* Primaris Lieutenant (can't lead Desolators): ''[Lethal Hits]'' on all weapons, Shoot+Charge after Falling Back
	** Castellan (~~nerfed version for Black Templars~~, ~~no Bladeguard/Desolation and no~~ Hellblasters)		**{{W40kKeyword\|Black Templars}} Castellan (can't lead Bladeguard, Desolators or Hellblasters: ''[Lethal Hits]'' on all weapons, Shoot+Charge after Falling Back
	* Primaris Techmarine (Assault and Normal Intercessors only, plus Servitors)		* Primaris Techmarine (Assault and Normal Intercessors only, plus Servitors)
	\|-		\|-
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	*Scout Sniper Squad		*Scout Sniper Squad
	\|		\|
	*Captain in Phobos Armour ('''Rites of Battle''')		*Captain in Phobos Armour: '''Rites of Battle'''
	*Librarian in Phobos Armour (No Scouts) (4+~~++ against~~ Psychic Attacks, '''Stealth''', '''Lone Operative''' on the whole unit)		*Librarian in Phobos Armour (No Scouts): FnP 4+ vs Psychic Attacks, '''Stealth''', '''Lone Operative''' on the whole unit
	*Lieutenant in Phobos Armour (No Scouts or Eliminators) ('''Lethal Hits''' on all weapons, move d6" after Shooting if not Engaged)		*Lieutenant in Phobos Armour (No Scouts or Eliminators): ''[Lethal Hits]'' on all weapons, move d6" after Shooting if not Engaged
	*Lieutenant in Reiver Armour (Reiver Squad Only) ('''Lethal Hits''' on all weapons, +3" to Terror Troops)		*Lieutenant in Reiver Armour (Reiver Squad Only): ''[Lethal Hits]'' on all weapons, +3" to Terror Troops
	\|-		\|-
	\| {{W40kKeyword\|Gravis}} \|\|		\| {{W40kKeyword\|Gravis}} \|\|
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	*Heavy Intercessor Squad		*Heavy Intercessor Squad
	\|		\|
	* Apothecary Biologis ('''Lethal Hits''' on all weapons)		* Apothecary Biologis: ''[Lethal Hits]'' on all weapons
	* Captain in Gravis Armour ('''Rites of Battle''')		* Captain in Gravis Armour: '''Rites of Battle'''
	\|}		\|}

71.233.195.51: /* Epic Heroes */

2023-06-23T08:41:36Z

Epic Heroes

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:41, 23 June 2023
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	**Is he worth taking over a captain? If you're not looking at any stratagems as your game-changers and just want someone to smack things alongside your exclusive teams; also, if you already ''have'' a captain, Watch Masters have no 1/army restrictions on their abilities like a normal captain's Rites of Battle does. Otherwise it'd be foolish to pass up free strats.		**Is he worth taking over a captain? If you're not looking at any stratagems as your game-changers and just want someone to smack things alongside your exclusive teams; also, if you already ''have'' a captain, Watch Masters have no 1/army restrictions on their abilities like a normal captain's Rites of Battle does. Otherwise it'd be foolish to pass up free strats.
	=====Epic Heroes=====		=====Epic Heroes=====
	*'''Watch ~~Master~~ Artemis:''' A captain with a power sword and a combi-flamer we can only identify as such because it has ''Ignores Cover'' and ''Torrent''. On top of a tanky 3+/4++/6+++, he can come back from the dead on a 2+, giving him a precious lone wound to fight on. Why would you take him? Well, he's like Uriel Ventris in that he can let a squad he leads use a stratagem that was already used. True, it's still using a CP, but it's a useful resource.		*'''Watch Captain Artemis:''' A captain with a power sword and a combi-flamer we can only identify as such because it has ''Ignores Cover'' and ''Torrent''. On top of a tanky 3+/4++/6+++, he can come back from the dead on a 2+, giving him a precious lone wound to fight on. Why would you take him? Well, he's like Uriel Ventris in that he can let a squad he leads use a stratagem that was already used. True, it's still using a CP, but it's a useful resource.
	*'''Kill Team Cassius:''' When a younger Cassius learned the finer arts of xenocide with a band of friends. He leads 8 veterans of varying loadouts, a biker and a terminator, granting them all ''Devastating Wounds'' while he's still alive. Meanwhile, the entire squad gets to re-roll battle-shock and Leadership checks. Truth be told, the grand consolidation of combi-weapons works somewhat in their favor, as they're now mostly dedicated to being anti-infantry though it's still split between melee and ranged. Also troubling is how only two members (Cassius and the Terminator) get any ~~Invulnerable~~ saves while only the Librarian gives a 4+ ~~FNP~~ against psychic ~~weapons~~.		*'''Kill Team Cassius:''' When a younger Cassius learned the finer arts of xenocide with a band of friends. He leads 8 veterans of varying loadouts, a biker, and a terminator, granting them all ''Devastating Wounds'' while he's still alive. Meanwhile, the entire squad gets to re-roll battle-shock and Leadership checks. Truth be told, the grand consolidation of combi-weapons works somewhat in their favor, as they're now mostly dedicated to being anti-infantry, though it's still split between melee and ranged. Also troubling is how only two members (Cassius and the Terminator) get any invulnerable saves while only the Librarian gives a 4+++ against psychic attacks.
	**The Veterans all have unique loadouts per member: Vael Donatus (Bolter+CCW), Zadeon Gydrael (LV Melee+Ranged), Rodricus Grytt (Frag Cannon), Antor Delassio (LV Ranged+Melee+Jump Pack), Edryc Sedorax (Twin Claws+Jump Pack), Jensus Natorian (Librarian hood+Force Weapon+Psychic Cleanse for something more rapid-fire without the overload), Drenn Redblade (Bolter+LV Melee), Ennox Sorlock (LV Ranged+CCW). Alongside them is Jetek Suberei (Biker w/ LV Melee) and Garran Barantar (Terminator w/ Heavy Flamer+Fist+LV Ranged)		**The Veterans all have unique loadouts per member: Vael Donatus (Bolter+CCW), Zadeon Gydrael (LV Melee+Ranged), Rodricus Grytt (Frag Cannon), Antor Delassio (LV Ranged+Melee+Jump Pack), Edryc Sedorax (Twin Claws+Jump Pack), Jensus Natorian (Librarian hood+Force Weapon+Psychic Cleanse for something more rapid-fire without the overload), Drenn Redblade (Bolter+LV Melee), Ennox Sorlock (LV Ranged+CCW). Alongside them is Jetek Suberei (Biker w/ LV Melee) and Garran Barantar (Terminator w/ Heavy Flamer+Fist+LV Ranged)

71.233.195.51: /* Deathwatch */

2023-06-23T08:19:34Z

Deathwatch

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:19, 23 June 2023
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	**The base vets work just like Deathwatch Veterans, with two nerfs: no sergeant to pick up a Xenophase Blade or force his bolter to be a combi-weapon, and the heavy gunner dudes can't pick up missile launchers. We'll get to the Terminators in a second, but for your 5 base dudes, at least 3 of them have 1 real job: getting shot first to ensure the unit stays at T5. That means you want 3 of them to have an invuln shield, and since base bolters are functionally useless, go ahead and give them power swords ("LV melee weapons").		**The base vets work just like Deathwatch Veterans, with two nerfs: no sergeant to pick up a Xenophase Blade or force his bolter to be a combi-weapon, and the heavy gunner dudes can't pick up missile launchers. We'll get to the Terminators in a second, but for your 5 base dudes, at least 3 of them have 1 real job: getting shot first to ensure the unit stays at T5. That means you want 3 of them to have an invuln shield, and since base bolters are functionally useless, go ahead and give them power swords ("LV melee weapons").
	***No melee loadout you can take on a base dude can remotely compare to a Terminator with a Terminator Thunder Hammer, which is why we already forced 3 dudes to carry a shield. However, your remaining 2 base dudes ''can'' carry guns worth a damn, so you have a choice there: 2 more shieldbearers for more ablative wounds for the Termis on top of some anti-MEQ melee, or 2 Infernus Heavy Bolters so you can always choose between a Heavy Bolter or a Heavy Flamer. The latter is probably your best bet.		***No melee loadout you can take on a base dude can remotely compare to a Terminator with a Terminator Thunder Hammer, which is why we already forced 3 dudes to carry a shield. However, your remaining 2 base dudes ''can'' carry guns worth a damn, so you have a choice there: 2 more shieldbearers for more ablative wounds for the Termis on top of some anti-MEQ melee, or 2 Infernus Heavy Bolters so you can always choose between a Heavy Bolter or a Heavy Flamer. The latter is probably your best bet.
	**The Terminators raise your unit's T to 5 provided you bring 5 of them, ~~so bring 5 of them~~. 3 of them should be gun carriers, with a Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter, and Power Fist each. The remaining 2 should take the inexplicably good Terminator Thunder Hammer, which outperforms both the basic dude Thunder Hammer ''and'' the Thunder Hammer your normal Termis can take, which forces a pairing with a Storm Shield for W4. Make no mistake, all 5 Termis are here to murder things, not to tank except as a last resort - you took 3 basic shield dudes for a reason.		**The Terminators raise your unit's T to 5 provided you bring 5 of them, [[derp\|which is illegal this edition]]. 3 of them should be gun carriers, with a Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter, and Power Fist each. The remaining 1 should take the inexplicably good Terminator Thunder Hammer, which outperforms both the basic dude Thunder Hammer ''and'' the Thunder Hammer your normal Termis can take, which forces a pairing with a Storm Shield for W4. Make no mistake, all 4 Termis are here to murder things, not to tank except as a last resort - you took 3 basic shield dudes for a reason.
	***A note on points: right now, the basic veterans are "worth" 20 points each, the terminators are "worth" 42, and the bikers are "worth" 28.33 points each, but the Proteus Kill Team costs 33 points a dude - meaning even if you take 5 Terminators, your "average" value is 31 points that you're paying 33 for (according to GW's math), and any other choice only makes your points efficiency plummet. While GW certainly can't be trusted to get points values anywhere near correct, this is another reason to ignore bikes and jump pack dudes in your unit.		***A note on points: right now, the basic veterans are "worth" 20 points each, the terminators are "worth" 42, and the bikers are "worth" 28.33 points each, but the Proteus Kill Team costs 33 points a dude - meaning even if you were able to take 5 Terminators, your "average" value would be 31 points that you're paying 33 for (according to GW's math), and any other choice only makes your points efficiency plummet. While GW certainly can't be trusted to get points values anywhere near correct, this is another reason to ignore bikes and jump pack dudes in your unit.
	**The jump vets are stuck with a deeply inferior loadout: a power sword with no accompanying invuln shield. As a result, never take these - your base veterans are better.		**The jump vets are stuck with a deeply inferior loadout: a power sword with no accompanying invuln shield. As a result, never take these - your base veterans are better.
	**The bikers each have a "twin boltgun", which is a [[derp\|boltgun but worse]], going from A2 to A1 in exchange for '''Twin-Linked''', and a power sword; the reason to take them is that each is OC2 and T5, which, per the Kill Team special rule, will let the entire unit act like it's T5 if half of the models or more are bikers. That means in order for your bikers to protect your other dudes they have to die ''last'' while holding the worst weapons in the team, so you probably don't want any - Terminators are also T5 and carry weapons worth a damn.		**The bikers each have a "twin boltgun", which is a [[derp\|boltgun but worse]], going from A2 to A1 in exchange for '''Twin-Linked''', and a power sword; the reason to take them is that each is OC2 and T5, which, per the Kill Team special rule, will let the entire unit act like it's T5 if half of the models or more are bikers. That means in order for your bikers to protect your other dudes they have to die ''last'' while holding the worst weapons in the team, so you probably don't want any - Terminators are also T5 and carry weapons worth a damn.