Centurion Squad: Difference between revisions

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All jokes aside these things suck. And not even the funny kind of suck that you get with Pyrovores, just the mediocre, almost-usable kind. Their kit and stats seems good on the surface however in practice glaring weaknesses arise.
All jokes aside these things suck. And not even the funny kind of suck that you get with Pyrovores, just the mediocre, almost-usable kind. Their kit and stats seems good on the surface however in practice glaring weaknesses arise.


Good:
Both squads are very durable with T5 W2 and 2+ saves, have a wide selection of mostly twin-linked weapons, and can fire both in the same turn due to theirs and still assault thanks to Slow and Purposeful. Devy-Cens have the option for heavy-bolters, twin-linked lascannons, or grav-cannons, along with hurricane bolters or rocket launchers. Ass-Cens can take twin-linked flammers, or meltas, with hurricane bolters or Ironclad assault launchers. All the while packing two S9 AP2 weapons with Armorbane. Both sarges can take omni-scopes for Splite-Fire and Night Vision.  
*'''They have grav-cannons and grav-amps.''' Which is the stuff that rapes the living hell out of your Riptides, Broadsides, Terminators and everything else with suitably high armor save (2+ or 3+). And they re-roll, too.
 
*S5 T5 W2 and 2+ each!
Now for the bad. While the squads are tough their very over pointed. 190 base for three and 60 for more squad members. This kills the Devy cens who already cost quite a bit to kit out. The assault cens thankfully dont have this problem.
*Relentless, they can move, shoot, and assault!
 
*They can each fire two weapons!
While being able to fire both their weapons after moving and assault afterwards is awesome, they can't Overwatch, Sweeping Advance, or Run. This kills the assault cens, who needs a land raider to reach assault. Being unable to overwatch is a significant lose since they actually stand a chance of hitting with all their twin-linked weapons. Also except for the sarges the other members of both squads only have one attack. Combine this with a lack of power weapons and Devy-cens will get tar-pitted by anything. The Assault-Cens thankfully get +1 for having two weapons though. 
*Twin-linked everywhere!
 
Bad:
The main reason they fail is that they just don't fill any gaps in the marine army that weren't already filled, other then giving them a squad of 2W models. And it's not like Space Marines lack durability anyway. For what it costs to get a squad of Devy-cens with las-cannons, you could get a full squad of regular devs with four for 30pts less. They're not twin-linked but you have the option to combat squad to tackle multiple threats. For what it costs to take Assault-cens with a land raider, you could get '''two''' squads of Assault Terminators.
*No invuln save. They lack a built in defense against the type of high S low AP weapons that are gonna get thrown at them most, so you'll wanna keep them in cover anyway.
 
*Dev-Cens suck in assault and will likely be tar pitted by anything. - (Protect them from Assault)
As if all that wasn't enough, the squad(s) also fail to synergize with most chapter tactics. In some cases this isn't really their fault, since the tactics in question are only meant to be used with certain units, like White Scars and Bikes.
*They cant run, overwatch, or sweeping advance - (Protect them from Assault)
**Ass-cens take forever to get into assault - (Give them a landraider)
**If either squad is charged all those guns of theirs are useless since they cant overwatch. - (Protect them from Assault)
*Both units are very pricey points wise.
*There's virtually nothing these guys do that another squad can't do for cheaper(with the exception of having 2Ws each). (Besides firing 15! grav cannon shots pr turn)
The squad(s) also fail to synergize with most chapter tactics in the vanilla marines codex (Not really their fault though since they already have what ever bonus they would normally get).


*Ultramarines:
*Ultramarines:
**Tactical Doctrine: With the exception of missile launchers, all the squad's ranged weapons are twin-linked making Tac Doc unneeded.
**Tactical Doctrine: No bonuses since all but one of their ranged weapons are twin-linked.
**Assault Doctrine: Only benefits the assault centurions, is completely useless to Devastator Centurions.
**Assault Doctrine: Useful for Assault Cens.
**Devastator Doctrine: Completely useless since neither squad can overwatch.
**Devastator Doctrine: Completely useless since neither squad can overwatch.
*White Scars: All the non-bike focused bonuses do not apply to these units(along with Terminators) specifically.
*White Scars: All the non-bike bonuses do not apply to these units(along with Terminators) specifically.
*Imperial Fists: The Devy-cens get Tank Hunters and +1 to building damage which turns Lascannon/Missile launcher Dev cents into terrifying long ranged tank killers that will allow you to show your foes the terror that were S10 Broadsides. Ass-cens get nothing. Bolter drill is useless since all their weapons are twin-linked
*Black Templars: Challenge support only really helps Ass-Cen Sarge since its the only version you'll want to get in CC. Crusaders is useless since they can't run or sweeping advance.
*Black Templars: Challenge support only really helps Ass-Cen Sarge since its the only version you'll want to get in CC. Crusaders is useless since the squad can't run or sweeping advance.
*Salamanders: Flamecraft is nice but the Ass-Cens would already get the re-rolls to wound from their flamers being twin-linked. Since all their weapons are twin-linked already you'll only ever master craft a missile launcher or siege drill.
*Salamanders: Flamecraft is nice but the Ass-Cens would already get the re-rolls to wound from their flamers being twin-linked. Since all their weapons are twin-linked already you'll only ever master craft a missile launcher or siege drill.
*Raven Guard: Stealth and Scouts only apply to none bulky units/models. The second half only affects units with HoR and Jump Packs.
*Raven Guard: Stealth and Scouts only apply to none bulky units/models. The second half only affects units with Jump Packs.
 
The only chapter tactics that aren't wasted on them are Iron Hands, and Imperial Fists.  


The only chapter tactic that isn't wasted on them is Iron Hands, since the 6+ gives them a small band-aid for their lack of invulns, and IWND can benefit their 2W sarges.  
*Iron Hands: 6+ Feel No Pain gives them a small band-aid for their lack of invulns, and IWND can benefit their 2W sarges.  


The main reason they fail is that they just don't fill any gaps in the marine army that weren't already filled, other then giving them a squad of 2W models. And it's not like Space Marines lack durability anyway.
*Imperial Fists: Give the Devy-cens get Tank Hunters and +1 to building damage which turns Lascannon/Missile launcher Dev cents into terrifying long ranged tank killers that will allow you to show your foes the terror that were S10 Broadsides. Ass-cens on the other hand get nothing. Bolter drill is useless since all their weapons are twin-linked


TL;DR The squad has its uses but they can be very situational. Dev-Cents are the ultimate anti-everything-with-2+-save unit. If you get them close enough. Ass-Cents, sadly, are useless.
TL;DR The squad has its uses but they can be very situational. Dev-Cents are the ultimate anti-everything-with-2+-save unit. If you get them close enough. Ass-Cents, sadly, are useless.

Revision as of 20:05, 27 May 2014

At least it looks better than the Dreadknight

Hey, you! Tired of just one Heavy Bolter? Wish to crush your foes with their own armour? Want to wear armour while you wear armour? Crave GIANT FUCKING DRILLS? Then the new Centurion Warsuit is for you!

A Centurion Squad is a new type of Space Marines Squad available with the release of 6th edition. A Centurion is a warsuit whose STC printout was discovered after the Age of Apostasy. After getting the "not heresy" stamp from the Adeptus Mechanicus, the Imperium of Man began supplying Space Marine Chapters with the suits, who dubbed them "Centurion" after the former officers of the Legiones Astartes. The Centurion is a specialist piece of equipment used for sieges or line-breaking. Despite not interfacing with the Space Marines Black Carapace, it gives the Marine durability that is rivaled by that of a Dreadnought, without the requirement of losing their spine and three out of four limbs in a heroic, but probably avoidable last stand. Instead of recruiting out of the Chapter's First Company Veterans, Centurion pilots are recruited from the Assault or Devastator Squads, as Centurions are only useful in specific roles of Assault and heavy weapons, and their pilots need to be immersed in a specific type of warfare (so why don't they recruit from the vanguard veterans?)

While you won't be blam'd for calling them "Reasonable Dreadnaughts", it should be noted that their current status makes them inferior to true dreadnaughts in both loadout and points price DUE TO LACK OF HEROIC SACRIFICE.

They are also commonly referred to as "Space Marine inside a Space Marine" or "baby Dreadknights" by fa/tg/uys. Sometimes "tubinators" by less fatguys.

Why they suck

All jokes aside these things suck. And not even the funny kind of suck that you get with Pyrovores, just the mediocre, almost-usable kind. Their kit and stats seems good on the surface however in practice glaring weaknesses arise.

Both squads are very durable with T5 W2 and 2+ saves, have a wide selection of mostly twin-linked weapons, and can fire both in the same turn due to theirs and still assault thanks to Slow and Purposeful. Devy-Cens have the option for heavy-bolters, twin-linked lascannons, or grav-cannons, along with hurricane bolters or rocket launchers. Ass-Cens can take twin-linked flammers, or meltas, with hurricane bolters or Ironclad assault launchers. All the while packing two S9 AP2 weapons with Armorbane. Both sarges can take omni-scopes for Splite-Fire and Night Vision.

Now for the bad. While the squads are tough their very over pointed. 190 base for three and 60 for more squad members. This kills the Devy cens who already cost quite a bit to kit out. The assault cens thankfully dont have this problem.

While being able to fire both their weapons after moving and assault afterwards is awesome, they can't Overwatch, Sweeping Advance, or Run. This kills the assault cens, who needs a land raider to reach assault. Being unable to overwatch is a significant lose since they actually stand a chance of hitting with all their twin-linked weapons. Also except for the sarges the other members of both squads only have one attack. Combine this with a lack of power weapons and Devy-cens will get tar-pitted by anything. The Assault-Cens thankfully get +1 for having two weapons though.

The main reason they fail is that they just don't fill any gaps in the marine army that weren't already filled, other then giving them a squad of 2W models. And it's not like Space Marines lack durability anyway. For what it costs to get a squad of Devy-cens with las-cannons, you could get a full squad of regular devs with four for 30pts less. They're not twin-linked but you have the option to combat squad to tackle multiple threats. For what it costs to take Assault-cens with a land raider, you could get two squads of Assault Terminators.

As if all that wasn't enough, the squad(s) also fail to synergize with most chapter tactics. In some cases this isn't really their fault, since the tactics in question are only meant to be used with certain units, like White Scars and Bikes.

  • Ultramarines:
    • Tactical Doctrine: No bonuses since all but one of their ranged weapons are twin-linked.
    • Assault Doctrine: Useful for Assault Cens.
    • Devastator Doctrine: Completely useless since neither squad can overwatch.
  • White Scars: All the non-bike bonuses do not apply to these units(along with Terminators) specifically.
  • Black Templars: Challenge support only really helps Ass-Cen Sarge since its the only version you'll want to get in CC. Crusaders is useless since they can't run or sweeping advance.
  • Salamanders: Flamecraft is nice but the Ass-Cens would already get the re-rolls to wound from their flamers being twin-linked. Since all their weapons are twin-linked already you'll only ever master craft a missile launcher or siege drill.
  • Raven Guard: Stealth and Scouts only apply to none bulky units/models. The second half only affects units with Jump Packs.

The only chapter tactics that aren't wasted on them are Iron Hands, and Imperial Fists.

  • Iron Hands: 6+ Feel No Pain gives them a small band-aid for their lack of invulns, and IWND can benefit their 2W sarges.
  • Imperial Fists: Give the Devy-cens get Tank Hunters and +1 to building damage which turns Lascannon/Missile launcher Dev cents into terrifying long ranged tank killers that will allow you to show your foes the terror that were S10 Broadsides. Ass-cens on the other hand get nothing. Bolter drill is useless since all their weapons are twin-linked

TL;DR The squad has its uses but they can be very situational. Dev-Cents are the ultimate anti-everything-with-2+-save unit. If you get them close enough. Ass-Cents, sadly, are useless. Build them with grav-cannons. Trade all those lascannon, heavy bolter and melta bits to your friendly Guard player.

A certain build called the Grav-Star has four to six of them with grav-cannons and hurricane bolters paired with Tigurius rolling for Gates of Infinity and then whatever goodies he can get on other tables, then paired with whatever other HQs you feel like having (such as a beatstick build a chaptermaster and/or some psykers for more buffs) that can then be further paired with a Tau Buffmander. This can become very expensive (nearing 1000 points for a six cent build with all the bells and whistles!), but has the durability and firepower to devastate just about anything it meets while weathering the storm itself.

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